NATS Staff leaving
 

I have noticed over the past two or three years many NATS staff, particularly members of the ATSA and engineering grades leaving due to redundancy, early retirement or other reasons.

These members of staff have been the backbone of the CAA and NATS for many decades.

I suspect, although I may be wrong that these hundreds of people have left NATS without any kind of acknowledgment or even thank you in the official methods of communication such as Airway, Pulse, or whatever it is called nowadays.

I however, have worked with quite a few and I would like to personally thank them for their comradeship, camaraderie, professional skill, and true friendship that has continued to this day.

Never a day goes by that I thank my lucky stars that I was allowed to be a member of such a team of great people.

Tony Fallows
Cheshire

Your paragraph 3 has it about right. I remember a controller leaving after 38 years, during which he had taken only 5 [yes..FIVE] days sickness........just walked out of the door......loved and respected by colleagues.......just a number to the "suits".
I miss your Hawaiian shirt selections that brightened up the day, but not your knees..........live long and prosper. rgds Coach

Yep, all I got from HR when I left was a memo reminding me to hand in my pass and headset!!! At least the people I worked with, including my Watch Boss, did considerably better. Years later I discovered that nobody had told LATCC management that it was my last day.... Echoing what Tony said, the 31 years I spent at Heathrow and LTCC were the best working days of my life among the very best people on this earth.

The day I walked out of LATCC after 32 years, my TC Manager & my watch manager both refused to come down the pub for a drink. They said it would not be appropriate.

B*st*rds. I will never forget that.

Clint. Gurry.

Better off without d*ckheads like that anyway.

Clint
We worked with each other LATCC early eighties, glen ATCA D Watch then 64 ATCO Cadet.
That is disgusting, I left NATS after 10 years and my then boss acted very much the same told me that I would never work for NATS again, three weeks later I got a thank you letter from HR thanking me for my 10 years and if I ever want to work for NATS again give them a ring!!

All I want is a lump sum and the REGULAR payment on the first of the month, the rest you can shove.

When I left LATCC in 1980 prior to going to H&I, the Centre Superintendent, Keith Mack asked for me to call in as he wanted to wish me luck and say goodbye.

Different sort of managers in those days, dare I say Clint ,because most of them had started their careers in the military - people like Norman Whitelock, John Saker, Bert Harding etc.

The managers from No 2 cadet course onwards have in the main been selfish and frightened of their own shadows.

Mr_Grubby aka Clint

As you know I resigned from NATS in 1995 and went overseas, this after 28 years and 200+ days. The top LATCC managment were very good offering me the option to come back and straight in at my previous level if the overseas contract didn't work out. Couldn't fault them. Good guys. Both Mr D and Mr L.

The down side was the local watch management as in Mr Wobbley and his Masonic colleagues who were frankly pathetic. Having a masonic handshake and/or big tits were guarantees of promotion.

Also, in my letter from HR they couldn't spell my name correctly. This after 28 years. Again pathetic.

Not quite sure that I agree with Brian 48nav re managers from No 2 Cadet course onwards. I would suggest from No 6 course onwards.

Cheers:ok:

P.S. NATS then were an OK outfit to work for but as obwan says: "All I want is a lump sum and the REGULAR payment on the first of the month, the rest you can shove".

Brian, I had the same thing in 1985 when I left for LL. It'd be unheard of now...

Norman Whitelock was my first Watch Sup at Heathrow. A real gent who could do every job in the ops room from Supervisor, through the radar positions, to ATSA. Watching him strip bashing to get an ATSA away on an EG was something to behold.

When I left my then boss - Dave Rushton - came to the pub and delivered a very interesting and amusing speech for which I was very grateful.

When I left after 39 yrs 8 mths, all I got was a photograph of the control tower(which I wouldn't even take inside my house), followed some 2 months later by a 'good luck' card.
Absolutely nothing from management even though I'd offered to stay on as I knew they'd be short of experienced/validated staff(they agreed but on their terms which were not my terms) and according to what I hear, they're still short of staff so it's their loss.

Some guys out of the ATSA/ MSG grades went out to Dubai in the last year, so some folks escaped Nats not just for retirement or voluntary redundancy but for career reasons.

A general trend is that Nats has not replaced anybody who left and consequently the ones left behind are doing more work with less pairs of hands to help!:ugh:

40 years man and boy in NATS and when I left in November no management said thank you.

The people who did were the AC bods, controllers and assistants, that I had worked with over the years and for that I was very grateful. The important people said thank you, as for the others, I couldn't give a toss, they don't.

David Reavell

I'm one who left and the 'business' couldn't afford to replace the 2 in my dept who left, 1 who went to a different dept and 1 vacancy never filled. It's very interesting working for a different company :ok:

BD

Yes they do, they also after 25 years treat you and your partner to a posh night out at a posh hotel with other folk in the same boat......The only problem for me is by the time they brought in the Hotel night package I had already passed my 25 years so missed out on the deal. :{Despite a few attempts on our Intranet site to whinge about missing out on that ( those that know me will tell you whinging is my favourite pastime):E I am still waiting my invite.:*

To be honest when I leave if no one from Management says goodbye well that will be their loss and not mine....:rolleyes:the one thing about the job is the people you work with and I can honestly say the operations folk in NATS in general are some of the best.....:ok:characters one and all and my life would have been a lot sadder if I had missed out on the life I have had. :cool:

When I left, after three and a bit years of service, I remember the boss calling me into his office for a chat. He said I could either resign or have my contract terminated.

I was told by my GM to find another job.I'm an ATCO with 32 years experience,more than capable of maintaining currency etc,and was treated like something that the dog vomitted on the floor.
So I just walked out,and let them get on with it.I'm away from all the C:mad:p,and back in ATC with another employer who treats me like a human being.
I hear that my old NSL unit has had more people leave,and the roster is falling to bits.Oh dear,what a pity,never mind.:{

TAD...... Where are you now?

I just think that it is rather sad that a whole group of employees numbering in their hundreds are leaving NATS and that it does not rate a mention in the staff newspaper as it is the end of an era.

I wonder if the editor is Professor Pangloss?

Do they still produce a staff newspaper?
If so, how do you receive copies of it?
'Airway', 'Airspace' and 'NATS News' were available at the units and I believe, posted to retired staff who requested them.

DC10,

The guys who are leaving are the professionals who made NATS what it is today. The aviation enthusiasts with strength and depth of character, individuality, the courage to stand up for what they believed is best for British ATC, and who thoroughly enjoyed their job. In short, just the type that modern management abhors. That's why there's no mention of them. Management are glad to be rid of them, and simply waiting for the day every controller will be a GM puppet, unquestioningly obeying every corporate diktat.

Willing GM puppet?
 

Well, during my 22 years at Heathrow, I consider that I was a willing GM puppet, I unquestioningly obeyed every corporate diktat etc etc..........and it didn't do me any harm.
Happy New Year everyone!!!!
Jezza.
;-)

radarman. times have changed and we are in a different world now. Todays controllers are less beligerent than some of the older guys but thats not always a bad thing.Did you really think things would continue as they were ? I know in my 25 years they have changed massively but never thought it would last forever. It doesnt mean todays guys are weak or wimpish but have to operate in a very different world with very different pressures. you should just be grateful you had the best of times . I would hate to be entering the job now. Its going to be a very different role in the years to come.

I don't think anyone was implying any criticism of the new generation. I personally take my hat off to them. I think they're just as professional as we ever were, perhaps more, they certainly do a job that I couldn't do anymore !
They probably don't play french cricket or volleyball in the ops room and it's unlikely that a guy called Eric would kick their feet off the chair when they fall asleep in the FIR
I wonder if the Red Baron and North Sea parrot migrated to NERC, the Clacton Belle probably didn't make it. I doubt anyone tries to set fire to the ops room with a spirit powered steam train and there's no strip holders to build bridges out of anymore.
Did anyone do a poll to see whose "Thanks a Million" clock lasted longest? Mine lasted a week.

Tony, to go back to your original point, publishing departures is something that should be asked of the individual concerned. I'm sure there are some who wish to just slip quietly out the door.

I retired in '99 and was actually presented with an engraved tin mug. What really p***ed me off was not being allowed to return to the ops room to say goodbye. So goodbye !

My first post here btw, so hello.

Cambioso
 

Jez, I've just sprayed my tea all over Anne's laptop, wait till she sees you again!

Anyway I thought most of your 22 years were done by other people!

HNY Brian

Recently completed 40 years service with Eurocontrol. Not a single word of acknowledgement by the Organisation. In these modern times managers are totally devoid of even the basic people skills - and loyalty is a dirty word.

A couple of years ago, by contrast, the very first Director of the Maastricht UAC, who is long retired - and whom I have no social contact with whatsoever, called me at home to congratulate me on my 60th birthday! They certainly don't make them like that any more.

Jez was always a company man, it's just that we were never sure which company.

> Did anyone do a poll to see whose "Thanks a Million" clock lasted longest? Mine lasted a week.

Mine is still going strong! Mind you, I've had to change the battery ...

<Anyway I thought most of your 22 years were done by other people!>

That would have been in the interests of aviation safety eh Jez ?JUST JOKING!!!!:ouch:

Oh happy days.... Jenks coming in late due to traffic jams and telling plod they couldn't organise, etc, etc..... on their frequency!!!!

IMc coming in drenched and stripping down to his knickers in Approach only to find visitors from the WVS peering down from the gallery with their eyes out on stalks!

AC using the megaphone from the 7th floor balcony to "broadcast" information about landing aircraft to the masses outside T2, much like the roof gardens commentators of old times.....

Presumably this sort of thing doesn't happen now?

So many things no longer happen in NATS. It is an animal which has changed beyond all recognition in the past ten years. I reckon it started with the Robber/Red Barron.

Frankly all I want is my lump sum monthly pension and the luxury of throwing the alarm clock out of the window at 0455 :ok:

" I reckon it started with the Robber/Red Barron."

I think it started with NATS. I don't remember any organizational whinges when it was CAA.

I retired last year,after 45 years with NATS, (at SATCC, LATCC, `GP, `PF, and Scottish). On my last day, our GM (Pauline) came for a chat in the ops room.
Some managers know how to look after their staff.

45 years working for NATS!. Congrats for working for so many years and for the same company.

Having myself attended a few recent LL leaving-do's, I have noticed (with great pleasure :ok:) that the biggest smiles were worn by those who had already cast off the work shackles, whatever their individual reasons were for leaving.

I also note that I have yet to meet anybody within this group who has admitted to any regrets about their departure from the Company, apart from the loss of the regular at-work comradeship. It may be scary for those leaving the Company for any reason other than reaching normal retirement, but believe me, life does go on after NATS!

The lack of Mgmt attendees at these gatherings was unsurprising :hmm: but did make for a more enjoyable atmosphere down t'pub! (and probably saved a few 'targets' from some well-aimed and honest home truths from certain quarters! :E :E)

I disagree.....I have only worked in NATS and NATS when it was a joint CAA/MOD organisation. I feel strongly that the change set in when the train people pitched up....I was only surprised that they didn't make us clock in!!

I don't know what "train people " means so I'm going to be more specific about what I mean.

"Originally a function within the UK's CAA (Civil Aviation Authority), NATS (National Air Traffic Services) became a separate entity in 1996. When the UK Government part-privatised NATS in 2001, NATS was granted a licence by the Secretary of State for Transport to provide services in en route and oceanic airspace."

From my perspective that was the start. The separation and preparation for privatization was IMO and the opinion of many of us at the time, what led to changes which to us were unacceptable.

IMO it caused a rush of piglets to the trough and the stilettos came out of the closet. It led certain watch managers to pursue their own advancement at the expense of running their watches and from that moment the staff ceased to be people and became commodities.


So for me it began slightly prior to 96.

NATS Staff leaving
 

Gentlemen, an interesting thread but what a familiar tale.
When I started work over 30 years ago for a Government organisation I had a “boss” who cared – if you’d been off sick he was anxious that you hadn’t returned to work too early and if you had family problems (e.g. sick parents) he was willing to let you have time off.

Today a different story altogether. The department has a myriad of “ticky box” policies that they are so proud of and give the mandarins that warm feel good feeling. Managers profess that “our staff are our most important and valuable asset but what shameful deceit that is. A colleague who had been in the service 46 years retired in November having held a senior position. During his last twelve months he had a total of three weeks off when his wife suddenly died and subsequently his 90 year old father. During those 12 months he also had several days off through sickness and to reward him for his service the management threatened to invoke the competence procedure for cumulative absences!!!

At present we can’t even take our annual leave entitlement because staffing numbers have been cut to the bone.

So gentlemen you aren’t alone in feeling unwanted, uncared for and for being nothing more than an “employee number”. And for heavens sake don’t die at your desk since that may be a disciplinary issue!!

Gnatspee...when Barron arrived he arrived from Alstom......he brought a lot of his cronies with him......he brought a lot of techniques to "modernise" and make the "business" more efficient. I believe he made NATS into a totally different beast......and that has continued (not all for the good)

Alstom make trains.