42psi - they pick such things more often than we would like :ok: I had a chance to go with them a couple of times, and was really surprised how they can spot little things while going so fast, talking on the radio and making sure they don't bust their clearance. So fortunately, we can usually perform a runway check in one, maximum two gaps. We also came to agreement with them which makes them announce their check intentions on the radio and asking which runway we'd prefer first and from which direction. They are also very accomodating and if needed will wait, unless there's some really important reason to check the rwy immediately.

Not sure what Manchester's policy is on it but I would have lined up the the Emirates.Do a little bit of the runway inspection,then vacate.Depart Emirates and then finish off the runway inspection.Sounded like a routine inspection only.
As regards in depth inspections,then where I worked they took a lot longer on a much shorter runway,and with 2 vehicles.They check for the lights etc more on those ones.
I think the controller should have just ignorned the Emirates jibe about a number,and gone back with sorry I was on the phone say again.Then it's defused,and about 5 min delay due runway inspection keeps everyone happy usually.:hmm:
Then again fuel burn v hitting FOD a la Concorde.:rolleyes:

That would not constitute a proper runway inspection.......Driving at 60 MPH is ridiculous while carrying out an inspection.........Actually not even worth the title of inspection.....:eek:

If you say so.

.....and your opinion is that it is perfectly acceptable??

Does my or your opinion matter? What's important is it works - they DO find irregularities when they happen, and we had no incident due to FOD, cracks in the surface etc.

.........and presumably they could defend that procedure under cross examination at the subsequent enquiry?

I think not.

Helen

Ok, I'll suggest them an improvement - 10 people walking along the rwy to check it in detail :ok:

They should be doing that monthly anyway!
An improvement would just be to do it properly....:ok:

At the end of the day, Standby means Standby - not keep talking. Especially when there's other issues to deal with like co-ordinating weather avoidance - which the controller actually informed the Emirates crew about

that Emirates guy was a big baby...as mentioned Concorde:rolleyes:

42psi
Sorry if I have "upset the applecart", but that was the feeling at MAN when I worked there.
Perhaps you could include "Area" in your brief? Or is that outside your remit?
No axe to grind, just curious.
bb

Wiccan .. nope .. no "upset" :)

I just think things have changed a fair bit since then ... not to say they can't be improved further.

From my point of view both the intent and practice of ATC/Ops working relationship is cooperation. Ops teams dislike being unable to respond immed. to any controller requests - which can happen if they all all tied up with tasks or busy on phone/other radio channel etc ... it's the intent to respond and resolve anything as safely/quickly as possible. Indeed there can be times when the team will spot something and flag it up before it becomes a problem or offer an option when a problem has occured.

The intent of ops3/checker talking to the watch mgr well in advance is to allow him/her to liase with area (as well as runway) and then advise an appropriate timing.

If that doesn't take place the ops team won't know that, but will have the mistaken belief that it's been done. :sad:


It seems that in the past the working relationship was maybe not to happy .. all I can say that these days the intent is for ops to ensure that all works safely and smoothly and to assist ATC in delivering that.

I'd like to think that anyone listening to the radio traffic between ops/atc these days would be able to hear that in what goes on.

If it's still the case that internally area aren't getting a chance to have a say in timing inspection runs then I'm sure we can get something done to look at that :ok:

I'll certainly get the thing aired .... it would probably help matters along if someone from area fed some info in to me if they do get consulted .. pm me if needed folks.