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Bad day at Manchester?

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Bad day at Manchester?

Old 20th May 2010, 21:43
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Bad day at Manchester?

Not pointing any fingers, just sharing an interesting link with friends

YouTube - MAN/EGCC Manchester Tower Argument with Emirates Pilot
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Old 21st May 2010, 11:58
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A five minute delay for a routine rwy inspection, I think Ek018 had every right to be hacked off.
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Old 21st May 2010, 13:31
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To be fair to the Controller he DOES tell the Emirates the reason for the delay...he also explains that it's up to the Airport Authority when they do runway inspections and that there's nothing he can do about it.

Also, when asked to standby the Emirates continues to transmit on the frequency..oblivious to the fact that the controller is co-ordinating the weather avoidance turn that has just been made by the previous departure.

Frankly, i think the Emirates pilot comes across as a complete muppet...what a nightmare a five minute delay must be!
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Old 21st May 2010, 13:56
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I think the pilot has a right to be somewhat annoyed, his aircraft is sitting at the hold, ready to go only to be delayed for a minmum of 5 minutes because of an inspection.

What does a 777 burn at idle? I would reckon something along then lines of 12 tons per hour, so sitting at the hold would be burning a ton of fuel, just because a "routine" inspection was needed. When we have routine inspections, the take place between movements, vehicles off the runway when aircraft movements take place. Only when a priority inspection is needed do we delay aircraft.
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Old 21st May 2010, 14:15
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Someone hasn't read the thread Listening to UK ATC Communications : the law.
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Old 21st May 2010, 15:13
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To be fair to the Controller he DOES tell the Emirates the reason for the delay...he also explains that it's up to the Airport Authority when they do runway inspections and that there's nothing he can do about it.
Is it the airport authority that drove the requirement to totally stop movements on LHR's runways for the routine twice daily inspections or did that come from somewhere else?
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Old 21st May 2010, 17:46
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Somewhere else
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Old 21st May 2010, 20:06
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When we have routine inspections, the take place between movements, vehicles off the runway when aircraft movements take place. Only when a priority inspection is needed do we delay aircraft.
We did the same.
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Old 21st May 2010, 21:18
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As a controller I have to say it sounds to me very much like the controller was spoiling for an argument. He (or she!) went back time and again to keep the conversation going. Was the controller hacked off at losing some control of 'his' runway? Can't griz at the boss so took it out on the pilot? Whatever the reasoning behind it, it's hugely unprofessional for anyone to behave like this over the R/T. Controller winds the pilot up to FL500, pilot seething misses some vital check either on departure or on arrival back at EGCC on hearing same controllers voice.

Worst case? Distracted pilot spears in. With me on it.

As has been mentioned, landline is the place for this discussion. Even better, face to face, people get on better like that.
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Old 21st May 2010, 21:45
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Already running, [in the Airports forum (Manchester)] with some fairly informative answers.
bb
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Old 21st May 2010, 23:33
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A bad week for Manchester ATC. Not sure if anyone managed to see the BBC local news at lunchtime yesterday,but Fiona Bruce was upset because aircraft noise was spoiling the filming of Antiques Roadshow at Tatton Park.

Apparently she was expecting that flight noise would be "diverted," but to no avail.

Come on chaps, is nothing sacred. Spoiling The Roadshow and upsetting Fiona Bruce.

Shirley you can't be serious.
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Old 21st May 2010, 23:39
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The controller firmly blamed MA and said he had no control over when they did it and they should make a complaint to the airport authority.
Something is wrong there. Either the inspections are, as they should be, flexible, or, they are at a set time and cannot be delayed.
Even after it's started they could have vacated let the aircraft depart and then continued.
Maybe the controller was just having a bad day, they are not immune.
Routine runway inspections are mandatory, however timing of them is flexible and should cause minimum disruption.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 09:26
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Sorry Call100 you're behind the times

Flexible runway inspections are things of the past at some airfields like MAN.
Health and Safety and the Concorde accident changed the thinking!

Anyway I hope the new procedures get reviewed and if this incident brings about a review then most ATCOs would welcome it.
Like the Emirates pilot ATCOs at MAN and NPC despair at the new regime as it causes a backlog in traffic that affects the Area Controllers as well.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 12:55
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From Grabbers;
Controller winds the pilot up to FL500
He must have used so much fuel waiting that he was able to get that high!!!
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Old 22nd May 2010, 13:15
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Originally Posted by qwerty2 View Post
Sorry Call100 you're behind the times

Flexible runway inspections are things of the past at some airfields like MAN.
Health and Safety and the Concorde accident changed the thinking!

Anyway I hope the new procedures get reviewed and if this incident brings about a review then most ATCOs would welcome it.
Like the Emirates pilot ATCOs at MAN and NPC despair at the new regime as it causes a backlog in traffic that affects the Area Controllers as well.
Not behind the times actually ...I work with a runway inspection regime second to none.....Another post clearly indicates that MAN Ops contact the ATC watch manager prior to the inspection to enquire about convenient times.....http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airpo...ml#post5697440
Therefore showing flexibility exists at MAN as at other airports.
We do 10 to 12 routine inspections per day on top of all the other inspections, Bird strike, surface change etc. I'm sure the flexibility is appreciated by both sides.
If you listen to the tape again there is nothing on approach and nothing behind him. The Emirates could have gone and the inspection done without disruption to anyone.
I'm sure it's been sorted at MAN now and everyone is happy and singing from the same hymn sheet..

Last edited by call100; 22nd May 2010 at 13:28.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 13:56
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Hi,

approx delay seemed to be 7 mins, 40kg per min with both engines at idle.

Shame its gets like that on the RT, a bad day for all concerned that hopefully got better as the day went on.

Rgds.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 14:11
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Health and Safety
What the has H&S got to do with it?
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Old 22nd May 2010, 18:18
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Questionable attitude by the ATCO. Tea and biscuits with the Supervisor perhaps Having said that I understand his frustration. Many pilots have absolutely no idea what goes on in the Tower in terms of incoming/outgoing phone calls and the numerous co-ordinations which are continously going on. They see nothing and hear nothing and assume that the ATCO is up there picking his nose! However, it was no excuse for the ATCO to lose his composure so quickly.

Take a lesson from this guys, when an ATCO tells you to stand-by, it means he's busy doing something else equally important; so have a little patience and do just that.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 21:22
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If you listen to the tape again there is nothing on approach and nothing behind him.
Just a small matter of an EasyJet in front of him though or do they not count?
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Old 22nd May 2010, 23:58
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Originally Posted by 5milesbaby View Post
Just a small matter of an EasyJet in front of him though or do they not count?
No, it was neither on approach or behind him. As they both went within a couple of minutes the controller could have delayed the inspection that long......

Last edited by call100; 23rd May 2010 at 00:19.
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