Green taxi lights at LHR
 

I have been wondering about this a lot lately.

I know when planes land at LHR, they are told to follow the greens. Now, who actually control these lights? Surely I can't see one person turning lights on and off for 30 planes at a time.

Any answers would let me sleep at night :)

The Lighting Operator does it. He, or she, not even a controller, switches the routes on a 'Lighting Panel' would you believe. So sweet dreams!

The LOP is listening in on the GMC freq(s) and will switch the lights to mimic the Ground Controllers instructions. If truth be told standard routes will be set and the LOP will have a lot of free rein to control the junctions in order to minimise the workload. Certainly the old CTB panel possessed a number of electrical vagaries which were often too difficult for the ATCO to (bother to) understand hence 'Follow the greens'.....thus leaving it to the ATSA to earn his or her crust. These people are specialists and top class operators and can make or break the flow of GMC. The partnership between the ATCO and the ATSA was a very special bond and bridged any gap between the grades. Surviving a couple of hours on a wet and windy Friday evening in winter was always good reason to pat each other on the back, usually the result of an excellent join effort including some innate mind reading! Very, very rewarding work with a great bunch of people.

<<Surely I can't see one person turning lights on and off for 30 planes at a time.>>

It's often much more than that... plus various vehicles crossing to and from various manouevring areas, aircraft under tow, etc, etc.

I echo everything my old buddy Talkdownman has said. The Lighting Ops are nothing short of supermen/women and those I worked with saved my bacon more times than I care to remember.

chris warner, roger kunert, mike cleary, all on A watch, were the dogs on the panel. without them I would have been a lot greyer a lot sooner. many, many happy memories and my sincere thanks to you lads for looking after me so well for the 10 years I had with you. :ok::D

Happy Crimble PQ...

and to you =:;)

My money's on "D" Watch 1972 as the best :ok: - Bob Cook, Eric George, Eric Dallison & Trev Tapsall - stalwarts all :D
Merry Xmas Bren :)

You too Eric. None of those stalwarts left now, sadly..

I can assure you that as one who has taking a tongue lashing from controllers from JFK to ORD to LAX for asking them to repeat a taxi clearance, there is NOTHING more soothing and relaxing than at 6 a.m. in the dark and low vis after turning off 9L or 27R to hear "follow the greens hold at Uniform" or when departing "follow the greens to Horka."

These simple instructions are a HUGE help to those of us who can neither hear nor write fast enough to catch it any other way!

Whatever is it about US controllers that makes them behave like this ? I got the same at a GA field there ! Nowhere else in the world is like it.

Speaking as one of these lighting operators, the working relationship with GMC is unique in air traffic. You really can make or break GMC , especially in high traffic loadings. Takes about 6-7 months to reach board level, with a yearly competency or LCE check every year after that. The geat thing is that 2 of you working together can rapidly resolve problems, and even better than that, is two sets of eyes watching your flight!

Highly trained GMC specialists, as thats all they do. Most of the time it works well, although there is always one impatient pilot who expects the stop bar to drop immediately, where we have to allow the passing aircraft to "clear the block" to ensure adequate wing tip clearance. Also Lighting operators are only human , and may be routing 20-30 aircraft at the same time as you, so bear this in mind next time you do have to wait for a bar to drop! Sometimes it gets busy around the old Alphas ,Novembers and Juliets ( old Bravos to you HD), highly complex, weaving inbounds ,outbounds and towing traffic while also routing traffic through link 55 onto bravo-link51-alpha ( due to 512 push back) against inbound trafffic routing to stand 539 via Alpha etc etc. At the same time being on the phone to Airside systems about a problem with the AGL as well as listening to some of the highest RT loadings in Europe....get the picture? Great job. Great to work with some of the best Controllers around.

Mr Kunert...ahhh a legend of the panel!

What is the panel now in the 'Patio Heater'? Touch screen? Does it still jam? Do you still get 'ghosting routes'? Is Dyer still on the phone? What happened to the CTB's last Panel?

Touch screen. Strip displays( not like the old tower where traffic was memorised). Yes still get "ghosting" routes. No, Dyer poked off to france! Old panel broken up and bits given as momentos. New panels like 42" LCD tv screens. 4 screens , GMC1,2,3 and spare.

WHBM - Not sure why that happens but it is very unpleasant when it does as in this worst of all tongue lashings that almost cost lives: YouTube - NTSB Animation Runway Incursion Providence, Rhode Island United Airlines Flight 1448 December 6 1999 That is a case where having greens to follow would have been a lifesaver.

Also remember just before 9/11 landing in SERIOUS fog on 27R at LHR and not being able to even see the runway lights (yes it was that foggy for a moment) when we could not see to turn off and the traffic behind us (more than one I might add...) had to go around I was expecting the worse. I could hear the tower controller take a VERY deep breath but asked us only "if there were some difficulty :)" Ah, the understatement of the British! We finally did make it clear but it took a while to get to the terminal as at times we could only see 1 green.

Great fun, eh Fred?!! Before all the rules and regs came in about making approaches below one's minima, etc., life could get very scary. On more than one occasion when pilots could not see the green turn off lights I have "talked" aircraft off the runway using the Ground Radar "Keep turning, keep turning... straighten up now..". We used to practice using the radar with the fire service at night in case it was needed for real. They'd cover the windscreen - just like an IMC hood - and let us talk them round the airfield. I don't know if they still do it but it was great fun trying to "steer" a fire engine doing about 60mph!

Indeed, a seventies demo video (or cine...!) exists with my leader (AH) in his youth using the ASMI to provide an SRA to a B747 (AIC ISTR...) from 28L to a stand in the Hotel cul-de-sac. 'Start your turn......now.....stop turn....now' etc

Just imagine that now in todays SMS culture!

Excellent..........

Next time there is no stand guidance at T5 - I'm asking for an SRA!:ok:

green taxi lights at LHR
 

Oh, I can assure you that Dyer is still on the phone from time to time ... but no longer at LL.

GNB is my airfield of employment now, and although its a far cry from catching a nap inbetween dealing with breakfast and lunch, I am dealing with the SLC and their separated baggage.

Anyway, as a RETIRED L/Op, I thank 'ee kindly for the kind comments, I know I wasn't always the hottest bloke on the panel - that title IMHO goes to Paddy Treacy - but I felt almost privileged ( a single tear rolls doown my cheek) to have done the job for 20 years.

Anyway, the gite will be ready for summer 2010, so if anyone fancies coming here and looking at Le Mont Blanc from ground level, drop me a line.

Pardon me for stealing this thread for a moment. I drive a pushback tug and I'd just like to say I wish we had more green lights at EGNM. Currently they are installed on taxiways Delta, November and Echo. Taxiway Alpha (ie the apron taxiway) is devoid of any lights apart from blues on the edge of the grass. This can be a real pain when it's dark or wet or both as it's very difficult to judge where to aim your aircraft. And if, like yesterday, there is snow on the ground, forget it. The yellow taxiway centreline simply isn't visible until you're almost upon it. Goodness knows what the pilots think.

Wonder if EGLL could spare us northerners a few greens for taxiway Alpha ? Or some cats' eyes or reflective studs.

I'll now hand this thread back to you. Thankyou for your indulgence. :ok:

Respect to you, Mooncrest, it takes some skill to push a loaded 747 out of a tight cul-de-sac (I'm thinking of the old LHR 'Juliets'). Flying Tigers at LHR had an open-top tug, they used to connect the bar to the back of the nosewheel and literally push the aircraft in front of the tug. We reckoned it was to keep undercover for as long as possible.

ATC history - I used to live in a caravan on the grass in front of the CTB at Yeadon - well it was back in the 1950s when ah were a lad, like. Without wanting to invoke Monty Pythons '4 Yorkshiremen', me Dad was an instructor at YFS and we wuz too poor to have a real roof.....