There was a time, when some pilots announced that
"We are delyed because of the ATC."

I would rather say as a pilot that
"Our flight was safe and orderly and expeditious and saved fuel
thanks to the ATC."

Remember: What you say might really come true.
At least as a pilot I would like to have as direct and
smooth flight as possible.

RYR probably think that being asked to fly 160 to 4 DME constitutes an ATC delay......

Yet another nonsense off the cuff remark. What's your problem, did your wife run off with one of our Pilots or something?

Very grown up Telstar, a great advert for Ryanir you are. I would suggest you get your backside down to Swanwick and plug in with us for the day then you might see what "my problem" is.

So do something about.

Contact our company. Contact our Chief Pilot or our Safety officer, childish snipes on here aren't going to solve the problem are they?

If Pilots are willfully and deliberately ignoring any ATC instructions as you are implying and you aren't reporting them then you are just as big a part of the problem.

If anyone's making childish snipes on here they're only following the lead of O'Leary :hmm:

Frankly Telstar as the poster who started this I must say three things

1. I have few problems with the crews themselves. They are neither better nor worse than any other operator

2. O'Leary is a gob. To throw out a remark such as he did is a terrible sleight

3. Your level of posting is inane and peurile.Are you Leo?

I probably did go after 777 a little to high handedly, but it just irritates me that he keeps popping up with remarks such as

It's just nonsense, it smacks of sour grapes or something similar, I can't quite tell. It's like these "A mate of a mate told me that all Ryanair Pilots are cowboys" which then turn into "fact".

Look, we all know the CEO is a plonker, but reflecting that back on the crews, the majority of which like you, strive for excellence every day and are professionals, just isn't on.

If you really feel that way 777, then report the crews. I can tell you anything of that nature coming from NATS is taken, very seriously.

Sour grapes and rumours? Just in case I didnt clarify, I am actually a KK radar controller not some spotter who plays VATSIM and listens to RT all day long (no offence intended to those of you that do).
The comments I keep "popping up with", as you so quaintly put it, are based on hours spent on a radar console...I know exactly what I'm talking about, as do my colleagues who sit on SS and GW.
I never once said you were "cowboys" or anything like that, you have put those words in my mouth....you're the one who has come on here having a pop at ATC. In case you've forgotten mate, this is an ATC forum.
Your comment about "my wife running off with one of your pilots" is quite frankly pathetic....how old are you, 19???
The fact is Ryanair routinely break ATC assigned speeds on final approach. And yes, we have reported it until we are blue in the face, which means a load of extra paperwork. Or perhaps you think we just like to come on PPRUNE and moan about it for a laugh. Things like not flying 160 to 4 compromise safety and make our job increasingly difficult. But hey, not to worry, you just keep doing what you want and making smart ar*e comments that serve no purpose.

Mr777

When did you last do a jumpseat ride with Ryanair or any other low cost operator?

This is a two way relationship or at least it is meant to be, you are not the only people under pressure in this environment!

I never said it wasn't a 2 way relationship, what I do object to is being the target of childish insults...thats hardly professional is it? As for jumpseat rides, 9/11 happened and they are now extremely difficult to get. We can get them, with some effort, from BA (who were very accomodating when I organised one this year). I have never heard let alone benefited from a jumpseat scheme from low cost carriers...equally, most of our pilot visits are from carriers such as BA and Virgin rather than low cost carriers, so it works both ways I'm afraid.

I think we all need to take a step back and just remember what started this thread. O'Leary is just doing what he does. There is a reason, and a good reason why NATS have not replied....because they dont need to. O'Leary is simply using excuses and trying to blame everyone else for a harsh economic reality.
He has nothing to lose from this statement, if NATS get pissed off and treat RYR differently, then he has proved his point and we will look entirely unprofessional. If it has the opposite effect and makes ATCO's work harder for RYR worrying about what has been said, then again, RYR win. Just let it go.
Lets be honest, for all this talk about professionalism and whos more to blame etc, we are as someone previously said, all under a lot of pressure to do our jobs faster and better, not only from pilot but our companies.
ATCO's are trained to be impartial...i couldnt care a less what livery the plane has, i'll move the traffic in the most expeditious and efficient way (and safest obv), i get grief off pilots (not just RYR) but i ignore it, all atcos should...its what we are paid to do!
As another poster mentioned, regardless of the requests for further climb and shortcuts, if an a/c has not followed instruction, then there are ways of dealing with this. Although i know a good moan is always good! :ok:

We at NATS should follow our companies example and ignore it and (not in our companies example) keep doing the good job we know we do day in and day out.

DAL

Just to give another perspective I work for Ryanair and have made the effort to get to Southampton at my own expense and in my own time.

I am strongly of the opinion that jump seat rides need to be reintroduced too because I feel the relationship between controllers and pilots is deteriorating.

There are probably many reasons for this but all I would say is that I've been a professional pilot for 25 years and I consider this flying to be quite relentless at times particularly training low experience pilots day after day.Anyone who says it beats working for a living either hasn't done it for long or is a macho idiot.

Just for you RYR jockeys....as i stated in an earlier post....comments from your captains that I witnessed whilst taking the PK-SS 1015 3 weeks back are not called for or warranted "Ladies and gentlemen I would like to appologise for the late departure of the flight but has been caused by an ATC delay, and know doubt due to the fantastic ATC system we have in Scotland know doubt the delays will continue all day".....I for one know how our guys at Scottish fall over backwards to accomodate these RYR fights with direct routings and requests to use 31 at PK when the duty runway is 13.....lets then have a bit of respect for the hard work they put in to achieve these requests.

I agree with you totally Stan, as would 99% of controllers, regarding jumpseat trips. I too organised one with BA in my own time and at my own expense and proved to be of massive benefit to both myself and the crew.
Is there somebody at RYR we need to contact specifically to arrange things like this? If you can provide me some contact details via PM I'd be more than happy to circulate it amongst the troops.
I realise both pilots and ATCOs can become quite defensive of their respective positions but as DAL208 says, we're all in it together. You'd probably find that if you could sit some pilots and ATCOs down together, things like final approach speeds could be resolved quickly and amicably without the need for going through management.....if only it were that easy!

Hey radar guys, don't forget that if our pilots friends don't fly their assigned speeds on approach and start playing catch-up, they'll be hearing this phrase a few times: "GO AROUND, I SAY AGAIN, GO AROUND, ACKNOWLEDGE!" I'm sure a few of these would start to focus their attention. I know this is much easier if there are no departures and you're packing them in and that missed approaches are a bugger with one lined up ahead for departure at SS GW and KK, but what can you do? (other than not lining one up ahead in the gap, in which case the non-complier "wins" with a timely landing clearance).

PS: this isn't ATC getting all ar$ey, this is a reality of flying faster (or slower) than you assigned speed

I will send a PM

Never had a problem with RYR! One of the better airlines operating in Scotland for following instructions!

Ryr/nats
 

I have to say I'm a bit puzzled about the continual gripes concerning RYR & ATC. I've worked them since the first day they operated from Prestwick & in all that time I've never had to reposition or send around a RYR plane because they weren't doing what they were told. Neither have I had any grief when told they can't have a straight in 31 or when I give them a rotten slot.
Before anyone says I've been lucky, just remember in this job you make your own luck ;-)
Mind you, I don't work for NATS :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should report it via the correct NATS channel (STAR) and then you'll get feedback, follow-up action and no paperwork since it's not hard copy-based... :hmm:

Whilst the perception you have may be valid for you, the accumulated evidence doesn't show that RYR is better or worse than any other operator when it comes to flying the ATC-assigned speeds.

But if there's a problem, then report it!!