Would 3 going back even balance the traffic in the other direction? I doubt it. (I'm not one of those going back ;) )

Ferris,
Not many leaving now, down from a flood to a trickle.Perhaps 3 won't make much difference but 20 might.

Watsup...Where are the 3 going back currently working?

Haha- the 20 are rumours! The 3 might be closer to the fact. Even 20 offers (were it true) might only yield 3 bodies.

Once again, AsA are back to shafting the staff who are already there. Can't be released? :hmm: Might want to check where the 'returnees' go. Ahh, so many rumours, so little man-management.

I can see the scenario already. OS ex AsA controller is offered a gig and promises of going to a certain sector. They arrive and find themselves not on that sector but on Tops with the usual 'operational requirements' line trotted out and additional excuses like 'that person did not have the authority to promise you that'.:rolleyes:

(I did not atually post in this thread, it is an illusion)

The 70,000 dollar 5 year bond may scare a few away but also we heard the rumour of more than 25 got job offers.Can't for the life of me work out where these guys are currently working, or perhaps they are retired .Anyway ,going to beddie-byes, have to get up in 6 hours to watch the soccer. Night-night.

To quote former World Superbike Champion Niel Hodgson "I'd rather eat my own s... than race for those guys"

20 ex-AsA bodies from O.S.? telling him he's dreamin, for me I'm outta the desert shortly with a pocket full 'o' cash (not quite a bucket full); some bloody brilliant ATC experience I never would have got in Oz (I don't take sick leave here cuz I'm worried I'll miss something)
Not having to go back to AsA ...priceless :}


Back to thread topic, college when you do get through doesn't prepare you for unit sim and the unit sim doesn't prepare you for final field.
Having said that I had it much easier 15 years ago than the current crop of guys & gals. We were looked after by AsA with accomodation and expenses paid for on top of our wages, decent ratio of 2 students to 1 instructor in the sim and no bond after rating.

Wow! This is an amazing forum, it's taken me a week to read it!!

I'm really keen to get into atc but I'm scared by sum of the things said, like this one ---

OJTIs & Checkies don't give a toss, and if you are not 110% safe, you won't get up.

Wots ojti an checkies? And wot makes someone safe or unsafe?

Tx!

MS

OJTI= on the job training instructor
Checkie= controller assigned the task of performance assessment of other controllers. Initial location-specific 'rating' or endorsement, ongoing annual re-validation etc. ie. the person who says whether or not you will clear the final hurdle and be an ATC.
Safe/unsafe= subjective decision of those who report on your performance (OJTIs, checkies) based on objective tools. ie. can you do the job in all circumstances.

OJTI = On the Job Training Instructor

checkie = check controller (they're the ones who assess your performance & say "yes" or "no").

The "not giving a toss" was with respect to the shortage of controllers. If a trainee isn't up to doing the job they will not pass not matter how desperate the organisation's need.

"safe" vs "unsafe" - making separation happen as opposed to letting it happen. Every time.

Absolute incompetence :ok:

Blippy, the sector/aisle you are sent to is not your decision. Don't forget there is aisle 3 in Melb and Bris. Don't be scared off by all of the negativity. I have had nothing but good experiences in the field so far. Training is excellent in my group. Can't speak for the other groups but I know West Procedural is excellent also.
Cheers

Now I've started reading I can't stop.....

Aisle 3 - is this inside speak for Enroute? :confused:

AVV,

If you are not in aisle 3 in ML (and it sounds like you may not be), I would suggest that you may not be in the best position to talk about the goings-on in our part of the world. If you go back 10 trainees in our aisle, you would be going back 2 years at least - in that time, there have been less than a handful fail, including one who 'self-scrubbed' the morning of his check. Those who passed include two ab-initios who passed on what is still one of the hardest groups in the centre (if not the entire country!) and is now only taking an ab-initito again because they can't get people from other groups on transfer and are desperately short, ie really should be for experienced controllers only! All indications are he will get through fine, so just where is this mis-placed aversion to aisle 3 coming from?

I also take issue with your comment on fear - no checkie or line manager that I have come across (and I have had some doozies!) has ever torn anyone apart because they smelt fear. Everyone is intimidated by checks and the checkies know this - it's the nature of the job but I have never seen anyone torn apart because they were nervous about the check or doing the job by themselves afterwards. When I got my first aisle 3 rating, I found the checkie paid a bit more attention to me than normal but my confidence needed it and it was in no way a bad or intimidating thing - it was reassuring that help was there if I needed it. Anyone looking at coming to AsA does NOT need to worry about checkies or line managers smelling fear and using it against you (Line managers will try and screw for all you are worth but that's just the way with AsA these days!)

Finally to suggest that aisle 3 is not supportive, accepting or encouraging of trainees is flat out ridiculous. Just what are you basing that on? Anyone sent to West P, West R or Bight, can expect training as good as anywhere else in either centre. When I was training, I got chucked back in the sim just before my check because all I had seen was Runway 21 at PH - Runway 03 had entirely different air routes and conflicts and I needed some refreshing before my check. To make an assertion like that belittles the great work that those of us who train in that aisle do so please provide some sort of justification for that remark.

To those coming, please don't be put off by AVV's comments; they are just not the case at all! The training will be tough but your training officers and line managers will do everything they can to help you. The checkies (especially in aisle 3!) are brilliant and are always available to provide advice to help you through. There are other things which may put you off of joining but don't let AVV's comments be the reason.

Is aisle 3 west radar?

I thought that was right down the end of the centre?

West radar is in aisle 3 along with the procedural sectors over the gafa & Bight. And yes, it is right down the end ;)

Why does everyone care so much about the pass/failure rates? If you are wanting to become an ATC or training at the moment, a 100% pass rate doesn't mean that YOU will rate in the field. Put in the hard work, do well and good things will happen. Checkies don't fail people because they don't like the look of them. It's in every ones best interest that more people make it to the field and rate. Saying that, the standard still has to maintained that you are safe.

Wish I'd failed one who made it to ALM! Very poor decision on my part....

Blippy, it's not so simple - sectors change, sectors have physically moved from Perth to Melbourne, procedures change.

Unless a trainee is absolutely appalling they generally get a second go on another sector.

I'm sure those stats are collected by someone but aren't made generally available. That said it would be possible for someone with a bit of time on their hands to come up with a reasonable estimate.

adc, it's been 20 years for me but I remember being concerned about the pass rate way back when.

I do agree that checkies aren't out to fail trainees because they feel like it, but they will maintain the standard.

well ive seen it happen more than once