Nice - How do you get four Charlies on a plane??

Oh sorry - that is an entirely different joke!!

:E:mad::E

Whats the correct call up during climb?
 

As I understand its correct to, during climb in a SID state your level passing and then the level you are cleared to. But do you need to do that later on in your climb and also even later in your descent???

"super speedy airline 123 report ready for departure"

"affirm"

:ugh::ugh::{:ugh::{:ugh:

Along the same lines:

ATC: Report ready.....

A/c: We're ready now, apart from the cabin......

or.....

A/c: We're ready now, apart from a pushback tug...

or....

A/c: We're ready now, apart from our final figures....

"## tower, this is ###"

"###, tower, standby."

"Roger, ##tower, ### standing by."

I think the key thing is here is that as flight crew most of us don't know how the cogs will turn in the background for each sector that we speak to. For example telling a London TC controller you want FLXXX to cruise will be a wasted breath however not everyone knows that telling a TC controller this bit of info is wasted airtime. For pilots a London frequency is a London frequency and thats it! Not everyone is a sad **** like me who knows which sector I am speaking to before I key the mike!

Grabbers

I always used to ask the 'Reds' to confirm type and POB..... used to wind them up a little...............

What really gives me the sh!ts is the number of RPT that call my sector from Departures on climb with the following;

"XXX centre, XXX123 on climb to F180." "XXX123, XXX centre, climb to FL390."(Planned level) Long pause...."Aaaggghhh, uummm, centre, request FL370.":ugh:

I can appreciate that this is going to happen from time to time but it's starting to become the norm rather than the exception Down Under.

All good and well when it's quiet but a little frustrating when the frequencies are busy.

Cheers.

Granted FL is usually filed by OPS department (and quite often with RFL), and not changed for an individual flight on a given day. Nevertheless the best moment to notify about your request is while requesting ATC clearance while still parked at the apron - we then have plenty of time to notify next sectors, especially if we're on dedicated DEL position.

What you jolly fine ATCO chaps forget is that whilst you're ALWAYS esconced in your own little radar room or tower, WE are in an ever changing environment that (believe it or not) has different rules, regs and PHRASOLOGIES!!!!!!.

I do agree that there is some awful radio work from some pilots - it makes me cringe to hear it sometimes:ugh::ugh: But have you thought that when you just get something like "affirm" in response to an "are you ready" maybe the guys in the front are busy with something and only vaguely heard what you said. Yes, I know we're supposed to maintain an ear out - but that doesn't always happen... Tiredness, tech problem, cabin problem - I could go on!!!

And as HS points out - any R/T calls whilst we're landing will be ignored:ok:

What you jolly fine ATCO chaps forget is that whilst you're ALWAYS esconced in your own little radar room or tower, WE are in an ever changing environment

??? I always thought ATC was an ever changing environment too or has the pause button on the radar screens at my unit broken.

White Knight why dont you go have a visit to one of the little radar rooms or towers and have a look. While you guys can concentrate on YOUR flight and what YOU want to do controllers have lots of A/C to deal with, usually all wanting to go the same way and climb and descend into each other (and on a good day he/she might just keep you apart).:eek:

sr562 I think the point that White Knight was making is that procedures can vary from state to state.

sr562 - mighty defensive heh? I've visited TRACON in the US, and tower at LGW, very impressed too with the professionalism. I thought your job was to keep us apart - even if we're going the same way at the same time:) Besides, we are supposed to be concentrating on OUR flight - I couldn't care less what the others are doing..
Lon got the idea of what I was saying..

Whilst I understand the frustration with reporting 'Fully Ready' but with a proviso, can you imagine the frustration of having your ducks so nearly in a row that you'll be ready in 3 minutes...

We then call fully ready, only to be told 'Right, twenty minutes startup delay'

If you thought the R/T was annoying, just be thankful you can't hear the screaming.:mad::mad::mad:

Slight drift but what annoys me is when I hit a HOT line to a sector only to hear "stand by approach, XXX123 when ready descend Fl120" etc.

AA

When switching from Approach to Tower, I often hear the phrase "Roger Papa Charlie Papa, continue approach". What a load of ole crap and waste of effort and breath that is. Unless flying a helo, there's not much else I can do buddy !! In my opinion the "continue approach"-instruction is just a way of buying time but it makes no sense at all.

An ATCO at EHBK who kinda lost it many, many moons ago and who retired a few years back (a day of monumental rejoicing:):)), once uttered these words...

"Papa Echo Sierra, proceed to the east, slowly but not immediately, we expect traffic in a minute or five, so I give you a call when you actually have to start moving."

This is not a joke, it really happened. Apparently this guy is still teaching RT at a local flying school....What a :mad:

Saying "continue approach" contribute to situation awareness of other crews on the frequency. Also, surface wind could be stated at this time to make forthcoming landing clearance shorter. However, when ATCO is short of his breath, "continue approach" is the first thing to omit.

then the reply should be "Stand by" or " Say Again"...not AFFIRM!! :hmm:

I agree Eastern Wiseguy:hmm::hmm: However, for some reason some will say "affirm", or "charlie charlie" or - I don't know mate. I was pointing out that the guys may be preoccupied. Maybe English isn't their first language, maybe they're not ICAO level4, maybe their cat got run over and they can't think straight:rolleyes::rolleyes:

White Knight/Lon Point taken and i shall hang my head in shame and read the posts more carefully:(

PH-SCP In previous years he often had me wishing for AG capability on the Warrior. When he heard that I worked for Eurocontrol he tried to make my life hell. He also did, IIRC, the RT exam at Schiphol back then. Despite 20 years as Controller and Pilot he gave me 71% on the practical. ""Mr. More, an aviation professional would use "Foxtrot" not "Fox"", and that the complicated and garbled communications about gliding activity miles off my track was not read back word for word,



To me it was water off a duck's back. Must be something to do with sharing a flat with the Creeganator in the past:}

Why should an ATCO be short of breath, I have always wondered what you get upto in those cosy little towers.

Good point White Knight, although I am a short hauler, the long haul guys are in a different country every flight, might not have been there for quite some time. Thanks to ATC for their input, will try to do better. :O

I'm afraid I totally disagree. Saying "Continue Approach" supplies just as much situational awareness to other crews on the frequency as saying "Continue to Breath". Other crews are totally clueless about the position of this particular aircraft other than it's "out there somewhere". If you want to say something meaningfull that also increases situational awaressness fot other crews, say "report passing xxx(fix) or xxx (dme) and include a landing number, that way other crews know that the aircraft hasn't passed that particular fix yet. If you can't issue a landing clearance yet, don't say "continue approach" but say "expect landing clearance on short final". Keep the pilot in the picture and don't say things that are obvious. The pilot will continue his approach until otherwise instructed, you don't have to tell him that !!


Quote:
When switching from Approach to Tower, I often hear the phrase "Roger Papa Charlie Papa, continue approach". What a load of ole crap and waste of effort and breath that is. Unless flying a helo, there's not much else I can do buddy !! In my opinion the "continue approach"-instruction is just a way of buying time but it makes no sense at all.
Saying "continue approach" contribute to situation awareness of other crews on the frequency. Also, surface wind could be stated at this time to make forthcoming landing clearance shorter. However, when ATCO is short of his breath, "continue approach" is the first thing to omit.

"Expect landing clearance on short final" makes no sense neither. They expect it sooner or later anyway.

The problem is you need to say something when they check in, coz they expect you to. Telling them winds while they're on 10 miles is quite often irrelevent. Number in sequence is also not very useful, unless you tell them they're number 1 and can relax a bit.

So what I prefer to do is either to inform how many departures they can expect before their landing (same/crossing rwy), or a simple "good morning/afternoon/evening".

ATCo saying "continue approach" is only half of the problem, the other half is you read it back:ugh:

In my opinion the "continue approach"-instruction is just a way of buying time but it makes no sense at all.


The purpose is to emphasise that you do NOT yet have landing clearance - but without mentioning the latter words and having them misheard.

My pet hate is with a particularly well known northern airfield, and I apologise if this is a specific local procedure of which I am not aware.

It goes as follows,

XXXXXXXXXX Delivery, XXX123, Boeing XXX, Stand XXX with Information A, QNH1013, Request clearance to XXY.

XXX123 Cleared to XYZ, NOKIN1Y, Squawk 1234, Information is Alpha, QNH1013.

Cleared to XYZ, NOKIN1Y, Squawk 1234, Information Alpha, QNH1013

My point being, most ATCO's seem to read back to you the ATIS code and QNH in the clearance, which, according to my book means I am obliged to read back the QNH and as good airmanship if nothing else, readback the ATIS code.

Incidentally, this is not limited to delivery and happens frequently on initial call with Radar too when passing ATIS code.

Not entirely R/T related but don't get me started on speed restrictions not being lifted, "300kts untill advised". When will that be then, arrival on stand?

Sorry... Rant Over...

tp555
that may be due to a) habit, the delivery controller is reading the same standard sentence many times per hour and even if he's heard the pilot report the current ATIS, he just can't help it slipping out again!
or b) he's confirming that the information IS Alpha and the QNH IS indeed 1007.
A question of emphasis, maybe; but when a pilot reports that they've got the current ATIS, I always confirm that it is indeed still current. The damn things change so often!
No need to mention the QNH if the pilot's read it out correctly once, although I am also guilty of blurting it out again inadvertantly!

The truth is that thrown away from reading your newspaper you can barely catch who's calling, if you're lucky you will even notice the stand he's given. ATIS - you're asking for too much :}

"Are speed restrictions in force today?"

Why the hell wouldn't it be?

or

"Request further climb"
"Standby, traffic above'
"Roger, we have him on TCAS"

:{:{

The next time it happens I shall do likewise.

Cheers

multitasking on landing
 

WHY OH WHY OH WHY do some ATC personages insist on talking to us when the main wheels are 0.1mm from the runway...

Just as the PF is wrestling the flying device to the runway and the PNF is watching, calling speeds, checking the reversers are out etc etc etc - some helpful ATC guy/girl will go ahead with the full "landed at XXXX, vacate next left at XX then hold at X, call ground on XXX.XXX and was there any turbulence/windshear on finals"???

P L E A S E PLEASE please
wait until we've got it on the ground and can talk to you before going ahead...having been a controller in a former life, it's like someone asking if you want tea just as you're using the "surface wind is XXX at XX knots, runway XX you're cleared to land" ploy to stretch a small gap into a larger one...Thank you muchly

727 exec.. look at my posting #36. ATCOs are trained not to talk to pilots at critical times during take-off and landing except in an emergency. But, as I pointed out, some pilots are more than capable of talking to ATC at those times. The way you talk, anyone would think pilots are busy!!!

Busy?? we've got to try and get the plane level enough for the first cup of tea after departure!!

I did have a look at #36, and I've never had an issue at your venerable airport, but some others...and yes, we're guilty too.

I once had a visit up the old tower at LL land - it was great!! Something us pilots should do more often at their local airport - always found choccy biccies went down well as a visiting gift, and we've had controllers visit us when they realised that there was always pizza before departure...:D

still the best has to be the Pre-departure cabin announcement made on the ground frequency! Especially when they tell the passengers how ATC have given them a slot! DOH!

[PEDANT] Should be "Contact agency, frequency/channel"[/PEDANT]:)

ANNOYING R/T
Some interesting ones from south of the equator:

From the pilots side they report approaching their cleared flight level.In general they are also approaching traffic 1000ft above or below.Contrary to popular belief the radar actually does work in certain third world countries.

From the ATC side certain controllers will request a pilot to reduce speed to 180kts ' when comfortable' :confused:, what happens if that is only at the outer marker?:ugh:

continue approach, can be useful sometimes, apart from the points made above it may be continue approach you are number 4, so helps create a better situational awareness, just the same as a pilot reporting on frequency and his range from touchdown, most units have a ATM so know how many miles you are, but the other aircraft dont, aircraft at the hold can become aware of the likely hood of getting a line up clearance, someone landing ahead be more aware of need to vacate quicker etc

Think any unit would welcome you if you bringing biccies and pizza!