protecting a/ways from military?
 

Folks a very basic question but i'd love to know. With the increase in Russian Airforce presence snooping around how do you protect your airways from incursions?. I was reading two GR 4s were scrabbled from Scotland on a intercept. Do these bears just turn up with no warning, (naturally no flight plan) and its all hands on deck with you guys vectoring etc. Or do they purposely stay away from civil airspace?

GR4s? Seems a bit strange sending a ground attack aircraft to intercept aircraft. Are you sure it wasn't F3s?

There is already a thread running on this subject and I think the answer given there is is that provided they remain in international airspace, they can pretty much do what they want - but with both their radar to protect them from ramming into a transatlantic Jumbo and (at least in the area where they are probing our defences) and ground based radar that can spot them at FL 360 there is no real danger.

"Without warning" is not the case as somebody will have been tracking them since they rounded the North Cape .. a good 2 hours flight away from our airspace.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ht=bear&page=7

This long running - but with a load of recent posts- thread has responses from those far more knowledgeable than I.

DGG

I remember LATCC Mil requesting coordination on a Bear being escorted by F-4s during the 80s!:rolleyes:

Everyone gets out of the way for QRA. It's great:E

No :bored:

There is no such thing in Europe!

CAS is not civil airspace? Hhhmmm, I would beg to differ. Not that I'm suggesting that uncontrolled Airspace is 'military', its not, but CAS is (IMHO of course) very firmly civil airspace. Hence approved military units having to ask for a Cleared Flight Path or 'take 5' through CAS and all other remain clear.

BD

No BDiONU, all airspace is military. By agreement we allow the civvies to use certain specified routes without the need for individual coordination. [Provided they maintain within 5NM of those routes and maintain FL450 or below, of course] :E

"I remember LATCC Mil requesting coordination on a Bear being escorted by F-4s during the 80s!:rolleyes:"



Wow! LATCC (Mil) mistakenly requested co-ordination in the 1980s...lets bring it up 20 years later shall we:ugh:

DD

Sounds like my wife!! :)
Pie

I'm not sure whether I'm being suckered in here but I'm a little doubtful about the basis for this statement. I have a feeling that the UK (and 180 or so other States) have signed up to the Chicago Convention. This appears to place a number of obligations on the State, just as military agreements will do. At national level it is necessary to carve up access to airspace and other arrangements that enable these obligations to be met. I have always understood that this is done by agreement between the relevant ministers but with the proviso that the Minister for Defence can play a trump card in times of war etc. But I'm not familiar with the concept that fundamentally it's either military or civil airspace.

But please put me right if you have a relevant reference.

I might be wrong, but I belive UK is the only country in the more civilized parts of the world not to protect their bases terminal area with some CAS.

And the Russians do not respect or adhere to reg regarding CAS, it's all due regard.

For the airline pilots out there, it's also a strong rumor going, that the Russian air force is flying in the blind spot of commercial aircraft, trying to hide from NATO EW radars. Cheeky bas*****...... :D

Send 'em a Eurocontrol bill, that'll put a stop to it :E

Hope we get a Bear or two at next year's RIAT :) :) :)

I think that Widger meant that the airspace is neither civil, or military. The airspace is a national resource and is managed by both the civil and military agencies. We have an established en-route structure to facilitate civil aircraft movements, controlled by civil air traffic controllers. Military ATCOs control throughout UK airspace, with the onus on the military to take 5 and coordinate passage with civil ATCOs due to the flexibility inherent in military ops compared to civil en-route traffic. At the end of the day however, we all (generally) work to the same set of rules to maintain safe and efficient flight.

Strewth DD, not too hot on the old banter are we!! Can I have my fishing rod, and boat back please?!:rolleyes:

All airspace is military? Where does that particular 'gem' originate? By the way, Concorde operated above FL450... well above...:suspect:

Switch your banter level up to stun Mr Pint ;)

BD

and the military have nothing that high?? I'll wager that, at times, they have traffic higher. I've certainly assisted a controller working a track at FL500 in the descent! (took bloody ages too... coffee went cold!):(


At the end of the day it gets dark... we all get paid... and we all share the airspace :-)

One BIG happy family :ok:

Obviously wasn't a Tornado F3 then ;) From the height & speed sounds like one of those ssshhh, Mums the word, American 'reconnaissance' flights.

BD