CAS Infringement 29 June 06
 

I was intrigued by a 7000 squawk doing aeros over Colchester this lunchtime, indicating FL 90!
It changed over to a Thames Radar squawk after a couple of minutes. I tuned in to Thames on a spare box to hear "***** *** 66" getting a bit of a bollocking. I'm guessing it was a JP out of North Weald.

Did he get nicked when he landed? What's the penalty these days for being that f*cking stupid?
LXGB

Well if you can afford to operate one of those then I wouldn't imagine a fine of a couple of grand will dent too much in your wallet.

I wonder if this was the same moron (in a JP) that I had cause to talk to a couple of years ago after he decided to go arsing about in the upper air on a VFR squawk (I am sure it was a JP), just north-east of London. The chap I spoke to was a complete arse and didn't give a toss that we had seriously considered launching QRA to find out what the hell he was up to.

STH

Are you not assuming a little too much? Was his mode C verified? What was the nature of his conversation with Thames (this is not normally their bit of sky). I ask because you appear to have judged him as guilty.

I have difficulty remembering the last time I saw a JP, of any description, in the "Upper Air". Are you sure?

Hi London Mil,
I agree it's strange that he spoke to Thames at that location at that level.

Unverified yes, absolutely, but he did say to Thames he was descending immediately to exit the airspace, then said his map was possibly out of date, then apologised, a lot.

Draw your own conclusions from that.

Call me cynical, but it looked and sounded pretty much like an infringement to me :hmm:

Best Regards,
LXGB

PS- Never underestimate the Noddy Jet! :)

"Service ceiling: 44,000 ft" - according to Wikipedia! ;)

There was a lot of talking after this crass incident. Is there no end to such inanities on Thames Radar and the gross imposition on the controllers caused by such people encumbering the Thames Radar frequency by inadeqate pilots seeking babysitting in Class G airspace, or rescue from other agencys' Class A airspace? A number of Thames controllers are now absolutely fed up to the back teeth with pilots piping up on 132.7 wanting FIS and non-existent LARS when it is damn-all to do with Thames Radar, 'duty-of-care' or not. Such encumberances are compromising flight safety to public transport movements within an already congested RMA. When, on earth, is nats going to bite the bullet and put a stop to this wretched nonsense ONCE AND FOR ALL? 4th of January?

And to all of Talkdownman's colleagues who do offer the best service they can to those of us who operate in the area in class G airspace, thank you. It makes it safer for all airspace users. Please keep doing what your workload permits.

OK then, define 'the area'.

LXGB/London Mil

what's so strange about him talking to Thames in that area at that level, surely it's no stranger than him doing aeros at that level in that position?

If (and this is without any facts other than this thread), he had screwed up, he may have realised and jumped to the first frequency he could think of i.e. one he knows.

On the other hand, he could have been given thames frequency to contact as he would be rapidly descending and thus getting into Thames territory.

Thames is in the same room as the rest of the TC controllers, coordination in this instance would be swift.

This actually happened on the afternoon of Tuesday 27th as well, with an aircraft unverified at about FL80 in the Spear area, this aircraft then started talking to Thames and was quickly descended.

Is this D day TDM??

I complete my (long) sentence at HMP Thames on 3rd. Bookworm will breathe a sigh of relief on the 4th.

Yeah, good point.

LXGB
:ok:

Colchester? Aeros? Talking to Thames? = Madness.
Thames Radar Service Provision is clearly published in the UK AIP.
That isn't one of them. It's time for Users and Abusers to re-acquaint themselves with the entries.

Be sure to let us know when/where the bash will be, don't invite AlanM or tell him to leave his camera at home!!

PS. Just what service does Thames Radar provide?;) :}

The Best Service.

Well I didn't carry out a VisIdent, but that was what the muppet claimed it to have been when I debriefed him. I wouldn't have thought it was too much to believe (T4/T5?)

STH

I'll get my hat and coat. :ouch:

Airspace Infringement
 

It matters not weather he actually infringed controlled airspce or not. He will not be fined and his licence will not be endorsed in any way. At worst he may have to talk to an overworked controller (during the controllers break) in order to meet a requirement in one of the 21-Destinations. Thats it. There is nothing to actually prevent him doing the same thing tomorrow.

I think it is very disappointing how light the penalties are for significant infringements considering the disruption caused. I see too many 'Formal Cautions' and nothing which is hard hitting. Hitting the wallet doesn't seem to have much impact. An imposition of compulsory flight test or re-training ought to be much more effective and humiliating for the serious offender. It is also interesting how we occasionally see the same recurring airframes involved in these incidents from the same old places.The electronic reports take an age to complete then no apparent action is taken. Little wonder that ATCOs cannot be bothered to report them.The infringements this morning in the London area were coming thick and fast by 11am. Even with successful tracing action there just isn't the time to make the reports and, quite frankly, nobody seemed to be bothered.