Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

CAA has just issued a new ATSIN with the wake vortex separation figures for the A380. So just when you thought you were packing them in nicely you'll have:

- an extra minute for any aircraft departing behind an A380
- minimum 10 miles behind an A380 on final approach for ANY aircraft type
- minimum 15nm behind for ALL other phases of flight at same altitude or less than 1500ft below
- min 1500ft en route vertical spacing below for following/crossing/reciprocal traffic

That should concentrate some minds.

NS

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

That'll be a pain in the arse then! Here's a link to the ATSIN (pdf format)...

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ATS079.pdf

LXGB

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

Good Grief!
So is the CAA also ensuring that A380s will fly a minimum of 1500 feet ABOVE the base of CAS? (Or are aircraft Outside CAS expected to fly 1500ft below the base of CAS!)

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

Does this also mean 380 operators are going to get stung for multiples of landing / en-route charges since the increased landing / take off separation minima adversely effect runway utilization? En-route sector capacity will also be impacted.

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

Surely that means that controllers will just make them wait until they can be slotted in without affecting anyone else too much. Sounds like 380 crews are going to have to get used to delays...

just my 2cents worth

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

10 mins separation on finals? In that space then you could fit 2 B747s which will have more seats than 1 A380 - when space becomes even more of a premium this will be a factor.

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

So much for the increase in capacity!!

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

Working two A380s at once in an enroute environment is a automatic overload!

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

This ATSIN is in response to an ICAO bulletin which was required because the A380 is 'going on tour'. The main flight research into the 380's wake vortex is to be completed later this year. I'd be very surprised if the spacing requirements stayed the same.

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

As gonzo said, it's supposedly a temporary precaution...
As a matter of fact do you guys use a special separation for the big Antonovs ? But still, their weight is over the one from the "infamous" A380. Does that make sense ?:}

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

Until it wants to fly in the USA.
Remember Concorde!!!?!?! :bored:

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

Gonzo said 'the ATSIN is in response to an ICAO bulletin' = knee jerk

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

It's never going to be 10 miles, how would Heathrow cope? They already use reduced vortex separation compared to some other units around the country between certain aircraft, as do Manc I believe ( been told in the past it is an alledged trial but has been going on for years).

The air down there must be more dense.

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

The spacing requirements are for A380s on PROVING flights only. The final ICAO decision is to be made in Montreal in late Feb/early March pending the ongoing tests in South of France.

p7

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

Hootin', it's actually less dense, all the hot air coming out of our 4th floor!

Oh, Hi P7!:E

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

No we don't, we treat them like every other 'Heavy', (& we've had both the AN124s and the AN225 operate onto our piece of real estate) but (& please correct me if I'm wrong) isn't the severity of the vortex also a function of wing design, not just overall size / weight? I'm assuming that the Airbus wing is more 'state of the art' than Mr Antonov's (I sincerely hope the engines are, too!).:E
Like Gonzo I too expect a reduction (or at least, a change) in the requirement eventually - this was hinted at in the ATSIN.
RC

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

Eva San

AN124 MTOW is around 400,000kg
AN225 is around 630,000 (not to many flying around)
A380-800F is said to be 590,000kg:ok: :ok:

Re: Get out of my way I'm bigger than you
 

That's the one I'm talking about, and I agree that there aren't many flying around but you can probably say the same thing about the A380 for now.
The only difference is that you have some special requirement for spacing when the A380 is concerned and not for the Mriya( at least to my knowledge) ...
That's all I'm saying !

AS380 separations released by UK CAA
 

Get the pdf here

Re: AS380 separations released by UK CAA
 

10 miles on final? So taking up the space of 2 747's thus less passengers per 10 miles. Sounds like the answer to airport congestion. Not.