Re: AS380 separations released by UK CAA
 

What about holding? Do i understand correctly that there should be 1500ft min between an A380 and another a/c below it in the hold? If so we loose an additional level in the stack if one A380 is holding (god help us if there is more than one A380 in the hold). And how about reciprocal traffic? am i to be vectored miles out of the way of an A380 when i am heading north up the bay of biscay at FL360 and an A380 is heading south at FL370?

Re: AS380 separations released by UK CAA
 

Its just ICAO advanced standard, Airbus will undoubtedly be appealing against this spacing and are supposed to be doing comparative trials at Istres this year with a A319, A340, 747 and 777 as well as the whale.

Re: AS380 separations released by UK CAA
 

Crossing the path of an A380 that has past a 1000ft above is also going to be interesting. I have had several scary encounters with 747 wakes when the traffic has passed accross our track about 20nm ahead 1000ft above. By the time you get there a few minutes later the wake has sunk 1000ft and you run right into it. Not nice.

Re: AS380 separations released by UK CAA
 

I'm sure commercial considerations will take priority. Seat belts on and flight attendants sat down will become the rule if an A380 is in the vicinity. Maybe TCAS will give you a special indication if it detects an A380:ooh:

Re: AS380 separations released by UK CAA
 

Took off from Toulouse in a 737, 2 minutes behind the A380, on one of its first flights, no wake at all...

Re: AS380 separations released by UK CAA
 

Be careful with drawing too many conclusions, these are precautionary measures , similar to those taken in 1968-69 when the 747 was being test flown , for those old enough to remember, ( gosh ! age shows :uhoh: )

These value apply to the 3 prototypes being currently flowm , and as Daysleeper said, the current tests in Istres will be interesting to watch.
I was told Airbus believes the A380 behaves better than the 777 and has chartered one from AF to compare.

Re: AS380 separations released by UK CAA
 

Well if the 380 is anything like a 340 you'll have outclimbed it easily in your 737!!!

Re: AS380 separations released by UK CAA
 

.....and? A lightly loaded s/haul twin (sarah737 from the UK, flying from TOU probably to the UK) will ALWAYS out climb a l/h aircraft (assuming the l/h aircraft is being used for what it's designed for), whether it's an A340, A380 or any of Boeing's bigger products for that matter. To paraphrase Rodney Marsh, what's your point?

Re: AS380 separations released by UK CAA
 

Some of you guys make very valid points and other of you seem to be going off the beaten track. None of us are experts at wake vortex nor should even try to be but we can go on your experiences. One example i can think of is lets look at the vortex seperation differences between the 757 and the A321 same size aircraft yet different catagory in the UK. could this be down to new technology and not just weight.

Come on guys why do us brits always slagg of new technology especially when were invloved in producing it.

Re: AS380 separations released by UK CAA
 

Ditto, with A320.

Nada, nothing.

Oh, and the climb profiles look remarkably similar as the 380 is not exactly overloaded......

Re: AS380 separations released by UK CAA
 

Perhaps the point was that the light s/h twin may have taken off before the rotation point of the A380 and therefore never have encountered the vortex, however dangerous it could have been?

Re: AS380 separations released by UK CAA
 

I doubt that the 380 even used a third of the runway, so rotated around 1000m. I expect that a full 320 was probably longer.

Re: AS380 separations released by UK CAA
 

I work in the London TMA, believe me, if that is the separation required, then we are scr*&*d. Our job is hard enough.

Point of note

These are NOT the final wake vortex spacing requirements, they are the temporary ones until further testing is done, which is, I believe, in March.

The A380 will be at Farnborough 2006... if that is the spacing that is required, it will not be flying - the temporary restricted airspace is already a big enough headache to us when controlling Heathrow SIDS... I can't see anything being allowed to depart if the A380 is displaying at EGLF

Double Thread. This is already being discussed here:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206035

LXGB

Irony is obviously in short supply on this thread! But if I wanted to make a serious point I would probably have started talking about relative rotation points too. If only ..........:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It was EMPTY for chrissake! Try a full one then tell us

NS

Isn't wake vortex determined by things like wing size/angle/flexing, and also another massive factor is whether it is wide or narrow body isn't it? (Hence 767 - Heavy and 757 - Medium maybe?)

Am i kind of right in thinking the above, or am i imagining this... (Corrections will be greatly appreciated)

I was looking at this very thing this week... It appears that ICAO is looking at the LIDAR data that has been taken from the A380 tests. I am sure that there will be more testing and such, but if it is found that the new super efficient wing is going to create a LARGE vortex that makes these separation standards needed, this is going to destroy the business case for the aircraft. No 1000 ft. separation standard to be able to comply with, no RVSM... Intersting thoughts... Curious to see what is going to happen.

regards

Scott

I doubt it.

Worked an AN124 (no 'winglets' to dissipate vortices) today with a Saab 340 5nm behind, no big deal. Asked if I had an AN225 what standard (no winglets, heavier than A380)? The same. If the aircraft gave off lots of wake it would be inefficient hence why new 737s have winglets the size of 172 wings - fuel efficiency by dissipating votices (interferes with lift at wing tips).

The 747 intro had ridiculously wide standards in the interest of flight safety until testing. Give it time and testing.

Please note above - no rules especially for the world's heaviest aircraft the 225.