NATS Pay Divide 2004

[Monger]

As ATC have again been granted their own separate pay negotiations isn’t it time that the rest of NATS left Prospect and found ourselves a new Trade Union.

[Arran's view]

The ATSAs and ATCOs are negotiating together ? That sounds interesting.

[Monger]

Yes the split seems to be complete.

[Arran's view]

Don't really follow the logic. The ATCOs and ATSAs are negotiating together and the Engineers and Admin are going to negotiate separately from them ? That means 3 different sets of negotiations ?

Our managers must have a lot of time on their hands.

[250 kts]

That's not how I understand it. Following the disgraceful behaviour last year by PCS (when they voted to accept the rise on offer following a recommendation to accept from their ececutive, and then reneged when the ATCOs rejected the offer and eventually got just about what the ATCOs got -but without lifting a finger), it was passed at the annual conference that Prospect would "go it alone" for 2004 in respect of pay. I believe the engineers, despite being Prospect members have opted to negotiate alongside PCS for 2004.

I await with interest what they will be asking for as a pay rise or will they be holding off until they see what the ATCOs ask for and then try to match that.

PCS certainly went a long way last year to attempt to wreck the Central Trade Union side harmony.

[DC10RealMan]

Without wishing to open old wounds. I had it from a PCS Rep that it was IPCS withdrawing from an agreed union line that started all the problems. Personally I do not know, but perhaps the truth is that all unions and their members are to blame. I would like to think that this year ALL employees show a united front when dealing with their union representives and the management and not show on Pprune the devisive backbiting that was all to evident when discussing this issue last year. It really does not matter who is to blame for past issues, but our collective futures that are important. I am sure that personal or group point scoring is only showing to the management how small minded and petty some of us are whilst they screw us collectively (if you will pardon the phrase).

[Monger]

I understnd that the ATCO branch voted at their conference to have seperate pay negotiations from the ATSS branch.

They obviously think they'll do better on their own.

[250 kts]

DC10,

You can have all the agreed union lines you like but if the MEMBERSHIP make it perfectly clear that the offer on the table is not acceptable then the executive have little option but to reject the offer which is precisely what happened.

We now have to accept where we are and get on with it.

[Monger]

Agreed but the issue is seperate bargaining. If the ATCO & ATSS branches are going to negotiate their pay seperately then there is no need to be in the same union.

As Prospect so obviously cares more about the ATCOs than the Engineers then it stands to reason that the Engineers could do better with different trade union. Why should we stick with one that has failed us?

[Minesapint]

Divide and rule is a well known management tactic. Looks like they have won. Didn't BA do something similar follwoing privatisation? I think so.

One NATS one union is the only real way to go. Other than that an ATC union if the engineers don't want to play. Anything else is ruinous.

[250 kts]

Monger,

Remember any union is only as strong as its' members. Last year both PCS and the engineers voted to accept the original offer but the ATCOs rejected. What were the executive expected to do-completely ignore the members??

Maybe you are right that there should be a single union for all ATC staff but as technology threatens jobs in the future is this really feasible?

I don't think Prospect cares less about the engineers but is duty bound to take account of what the ATCO membership indicate at the annual conference.

[Scott Voigt]

We have engineers as well as some other bargaining units in NATCA and they either have their own contract or we are in the process of getting them a contract... Just curious, why do you have to have the same contract for different professions? It is comparing apples and oranges at the bargaining table...

regards

Scott

[2 six 4]

scott - we don't have the same contract. We have the same basic terms and conditions i.e if your mobile you get this or that allowance on a move .. but if you are in a job you get paid differently depending on what your job entails.