Why no AVA's for EGLL Tower?
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Jerricho
You are obviously committed to your work and I am not suggesting that you would want to run out of the door early - indeed I do not know any controller mil or civ that would want to legit and leave their mates in a difficult situation. Apart from that, it was just a statement that leaving work, may be delayed, for one reason or another, which could be staffing problems as you mentioned previously.
Manning - we are established for 24 controllers for 24/7 ops. This is fine until you take into consideration the fact that we have 1 controller in Basra, 1 in Cyprus(very nice) and untill recently 2 in the Falkand Isles(now just 1). Not our fault, but the way it is. I guess we are no different from other units in this respect.
And it's Moony!
Point Seven
I suppose that you will be posting a retraction and apology for stating the ' military receive an inordinately large pension'.
I am sure that your comments will be much considered by a huge amount of dedicated people.
You are obviously committed to your work and I am not suggesting that you would want to run out of the door early - indeed I do not know any controller mil or civ that would want to legit and leave their mates in a difficult situation. Apart from that, it was just a statement that leaving work, may be delayed, for one reason or another, which could be staffing problems as you mentioned previously.
Manning - we are established for 24 controllers for 24/7 ops. This is fine until you take into consideration the fact that we have 1 controller in Basra, 1 in Cyprus(very nice) and untill recently 2 in the Falkand Isles(now just 1). Not our fault, but the way it is. I guess we are no different from other units in this respect.
And it's Moony!
Point Seven
I suppose that you will be posting a retraction and apology for stating the ' military receive an inordinately large pension'.
I am sure that your comments will be much considered by a huge amount of dedicated people.
Ohcirrej
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Here we go again.................
"Dear Travelling Public,
Once again, the situation that began this thread occured last evening. And, unfortunately, it looks like this evening will be the same. Hope the frustration that you feel while holding for 35 mins isn't as great as the frustration of those on the ground trying to provide you with the best service they can in the circumstances.
Signed ............................
P.S. Oh, and sorry about the extra noise generated for all the jets after 2200 for those folks trying to get a good nights sleep"
P.P.S Sorry Moony, no disrespect with the "e", just my lack of typing skills.
Once again, the situation that began this thread occured last evening. And, unfortunately, it looks like this evening will be the same. Hope the frustration that you feel while holding for 35 mins isn't as great as the frustration of those on the ground trying to provide you with the best service they can in the circumstances.
Signed ............................
P.S. Oh, and sorry about the extra noise generated for all the jets after 2200 for those folks trying to get a good nights sleep"
P.P.S Sorry Moony, no disrespect with the "e", just my lack of typing skills.
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Is the agreement about AVAs a measure to allevite a temporary staff shortage or is it a permenant thing?. If it is the latter then I would suggest that in the long term it is doing a disservice to all the ATC staff in NATS by not addressing the fundimental issue of staffing. I am not having a "go" at staff at LHR because Swanwick and I am sure other units do overtime as well.
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DC10RealMan
This is the question. Are management just going to use AVAs to cover holes in staffing or are they actually going to try and get back up to OR?
In the (increasingly unlikely) event of Thames going, the tower will be chronically understaffed and with less kids going through the college where are the trainees coming from? At the moment, they're being rushed through just to get numbers up and the prognosis for the tower ain't good.
The whole thing is another display of unit management using AVAs to get out of the s*it they put themselves in.
P7
This is the question. Are management just going to use AVAs to cover holes in staffing or are they actually going to try and get back up to OR?
In the (increasingly unlikely) event of Thames going, the tower will be chronically understaffed and with less kids going through the college where are the trainees coming from? At the moment, they're being rushed through just to get numbers up and the prognosis for the tower ain't good.
The whole thing is another display of unit management using AVAs to get out of the s*it they put themselves in.
P7
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.7,
You're absolutely right and I reckon the union should withdraw the deal at the end of the year when the present deal runs out. Management have taken the p**s out of this deal all along especially in the the airports. We should have the balls to say it hasn't worked as it should and lay it to rest for the foreseeable future.
You're absolutely right and I reckon the union should withdraw the deal at the end of the year when the present deal runs out. Management have taken the p**s out of this deal all along especially in the the airports. We should have the balls to say it hasn't worked as it should and lay it to rest for the foreseeable future.
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Call me a cynic if you wish but by accepting overtime and the principle of overtime working are you not just guaranting that the management get their bonuses for "acheiving their targets", whatever that might be. I do not wish to state the obvious but also by accepting overtime as a principle are you not giving management a stick to beat you with when they try and introduce additional duties as a matter of course as your main defence of fatigue cannot be defended if you are doing overtime. I agree that it should be for a finate time and not indefinately, or we will all be truly sorry!.
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Am I right in believing this is the first NATS airport to pay AVAs ? Presumably the rest will stop working overtime and await the introduction of AVAs at their unit..... or was there an agreement that we shaft the ATCO 3s again ?
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Findo,
Not a case of the ATCO3s being shafted-they are their own worse enemies if they go in at handbook overtime rates when there is a NATIONAL overtime deal agreed linked directly to the acceptance of the pay deal last year. When the manager asks for people to do the overtime the staff must just say NO unless it is at the AAVA agreed rate.
Similar to my last post people must have the balls to say "no" just as the union should cease the deal at the end of this year.
Not a case of the ATCO3s being shafted-they are their own worse enemies if they go in at handbook overtime rates when there is a NATIONAL overtime deal agreed linked directly to the acceptance of the pay deal last year. When the manager asks for people to do the overtime the staff must just say NO unless it is at the AAVA agreed rate.
Similar to my last post people must have the balls to say "no" just as the union should cease the deal at the end of this year.
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250kts
Yes that is what some of us have been doing out at the ATCO3 units, this is a national agreement we have been advised by the union that it is an National agreement and told that we should not be doing overtime by the Union until it is sorted out. Unfortunately you will find at every unit there will be some people who see that in the short term they will get the extra money and goahead and take the Overtime.
As others are saying though if this is a sop about sorting out Correct staffing levels I would rather do without thanks.
Yes that is what some of us have been doing out at the ATCO3 units, this is a national agreement we have been advised by the union that it is an National agreement and told that we should not be doing overtime by the Union until it is sorted out. Unfortunately you will find at every unit there will be some people who see that in the short term they will get the extra money and goahead and take the Overtime.
As others are saying though if this is a sop about sorting out Correct staffing levels I would rather do without thanks.
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"... we have been advised by the union that it is an National agreement and told that we should not be doing overtime by the Union until it is sorted out..."
Why then did our senior union rep ask me the other day to do overtime at the standard overtime rate? What kind of message is that from the union?
Why then did our senior union rep ask me the other day to do overtime at the standard overtime rate? What kind of message is that from the union?
