Climb In Accordance With The SID?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 30
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From: North
Climb In Accordance With The SID?
I would appreciate an ATC opinion on this which happened to me recently.
On Clacton departure out of LCY and following the SID with my vertical clearance as "climb with the SID". Changed to London and was then put on radar heading (which happened to almost follow the lateral SID track - actually about 0.5 mile left). No mention of vertical clearance by London.
Step climb point now about 10 mile ahead (from memory) for climb to 6,000' but as I'm on radar heading do ATC expect me to climb or not when I reach it?
Fortunately we managed to get a call in to clarify and were told "thanks for asking - climb now FL70". No big drama with that outcome but for a time I felt in a grey area. MY thoughts are that my last issued vertical clearance to climb with the SID do not apply when I am taken off the SID and put on a heading - but does that agree with ATCs thoughts?
On Clacton departure out of LCY and following the SID with my vertical clearance as "climb with the SID". Changed to London and was then put on radar heading (which happened to almost follow the lateral SID track - actually about 0.5 mile left). No mention of vertical clearance by London.
Step climb point now about 10 mile ahead (from memory) for climb to 6,000' but as I'm on radar heading do ATC expect me to climb or not when I reach it?
Fortunately we managed to get a call in to clarify and were told "thanks for asking - climb now FL70". No big drama with that outcome but for a time I felt in a grey area. MY thoughts are that my last issued vertical clearance to climb with the SID do not apply when I am taken off the SID and put on a heading - but does that agree with ATCs thoughts?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: North
Thanks Brimstone.
So to ammend my routing by taking me off the SID without mentioning the vertical profile (as happened) was in fact an ommission.
I will be aware next time if this happens again and clarify the clearance when issued.
HP
So to ammend my routing by taking me off the SID without mentioning the vertical profile (as happened) was in fact an ommission.
I will be aware next time if this happens again and clarify the clearance when issued.
HP
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 892
Likes: 6
From: southampton,hampshire,england
SID
Yes, it would have been prudent for the controller to have removed any ambiguity by mentioning a level when the heading was given. The heading instruction could be interpretted as having cancelled or negated the previous clearance, which in your case was the SID[which of course is merely an abbreviated clearance] ......This is just my opinion on your post.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
From: South of the River
The reason you would have been given the instruction "climb in accordance with the SID" is that your initial instruction on the ground from the Tower would have been something like "After departure maintain altitude 3000 feet on reaching".
This is because you were probably released by Thames onto their frequency with a 3000 foot restriction.
Just after you got airborne, the Thames controller obviously decided that he did not need to work you after all, and that you could be transfered straight from the Tower frequency to London Control. At this point the Thames controller would also have asked the Tower controller removed the 3000 foot restriction from the release, hence the phrase "climb in accordance with the SID".
I am sure that if you then received any heading instruction from London Control, it should most certainly have been accompanied by a level instruction, as the SID altitudes only apply to the SID itself.
This is because you were probably released by Thames onto their frequency with a 3000 foot restriction.
Just after you got airborne, the Thames controller obviously decided that he did not need to work you after all, and that you could be transfered straight from the Tower frequency to London Control. At this point the Thames controller would also have asked the Tower controller removed the 3000 foot restriction from the release, hence the phrase "climb in accordance with the SID".
I am sure that if you then received any heading instruction from London Control, it should most certainly have been accompanied by a level instruction, as the SID altitudes only apply to the SID itself.
