radar vectoring vfr a/c
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radar vectoring vfr a/c
Hey,
Apart from good airmanship or traffic flow is a vfr aircraft squarking mode charlie subject to radar vectoring and must cpmply with headings etc given by atc. Was in airspace yesterday and this vfr guy was given a heading and told he couldnt go to a the area he wanted to goto. The pilot said he was vfr and squarking mode charlie and didnt think he had to comply to instrustions.was he correct?
It was vmc conditions.traffic was kinda heavy i guess(6 a/c , thats busy for here) .Transponder mandatory airspace.
Thanks in advance
avago
Apart from good airmanship or traffic flow is a vfr aircraft squarking mode charlie subject to radar vectoring and must cpmply with headings etc given by atc. Was in airspace yesterday and this vfr guy was given a heading and told he couldnt go to a the area he wanted to goto. The pilot said he was vfr and squarking mode charlie and didnt think he had to comply to instrustions.was he correct?
It was vmc conditions.traffic was kinda heavy i guess(6 a/c , thats busy for here) .Transponder mandatory airspace.
Thanks in advance
avago
It helps if you say where you're from. Different states have different rules.
The answer for the UK depends very straightforwardly on the class of airspace. B/C/D and he must comply with ATC instructions. In E/F/G he is not obliged to.
But from your mention of the phrase Transponder mandatory airspace I guess you're not in the UK, because that's not a recognised type of airspace here.
The answer for the UK depends very straightforwardly on the class of airspace. B/C/D and he must comply with ATC instructions. In E/F/G he is not obliged to.
But from your mention of the phrase Transponder mandatory airspace I guess you're not in the UK, because that's not a recognised type of airspace here.
How about a few more (general) details:-
a) Which Country?
b) Inside or Outside Controlled Airspace (Category A/D etc.)?
c) What type of clearance/service was requested/issued?
d) Day/Night?
e) Aircraft and ATC - Military or Civil?
a) Which Country?
b) Inside or Outside Controlled Airspace (Category A/D etc.)?
c) What type of clearance/service was requested/issued?
d) Day/Night?
e) Aircraft and ATC - Military or Civil?
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My first reaction as an approach controller in the UK is we do not vector VFR aircraft.I have no idea if my vectors will permit the aircraft to continue VFR and I am therefore at risk of putting that aircraft and its' occupants in a position which may endanger them.HOWEVER I have been known to ask if an aircraft could accept a vector and having been assured that this would NOT compromise its' safety vectored it for a little while to assist in overall traffic flow.(I hasten to add that the aircrews involved generally wear green or blue uniforms and have more than a passing notion of flight in IMC should it occur).The answer therefore is no...he does not need to accept the vectors.Mode charlie,if verified is a useful tool for the ATCO but it does not mean that I should take it as some sort of invitation to vector you why would it?.In the situation you mention regarding he was told he couldn't go there...well I agree! If the controller is too busy and the category of airspace states that aircraft must obtain and follow air traffic clearance/instuctions ..then that is it...no discussion.If however you are in eg category E or G airspace well because an aircraft is VFR and can look out for itself (as it were) does not mean that poor airmanship can take over.The controller may well have thought that his priority lay with the other six aircraft and the VFR I am afraid may get short shrift.I know I have done it. Hope this helps .
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Avagobro,
In the US, yes a VFR acft may be vectored by ATC (we are assuming that said acft is receiving flight following and/or radar advisories). Does this pilot have to adhere to my instructions, it depends, but in the majority of cases the pilot must comply with ATC instructions unless the VFR pilot is unable to maintain VFR.
If I give a VFR acft a vector to avoid airspace (this could be restricted airspace, a military operations area, my busy primary airport, or a large public gathering, etc.) this pilot still has to maintain VFR but he/she must comply with my instructions.
Mike
NATCA FWA
In the US, yes a VFR acft may be vectored by ATC (we are assuming that said acft is receiving flight following and/or radar advisories). Does this pilot have to adhere to my instructions, it depends, but in the majority of cases the pilot must comply with ATC instructions unless the VFR pilot is unable to maintain VFR.
If I give a VFR acft a vector to avoid airspace (this could be restricted airspace, a military operations area, my busy primary airport, or a large public gathering, etc.) this pilot still has to maintain VFR but he/she must comply with my instructions.
Mike
NATCA FWA
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In UK, outside regulated airspace (in the open FIR), VFR aircraft operate on a see-and-be-seen basis and do not have to talk to ATC, let alone obey vectoring instructions. Similarly, ATC may choose not to give a service to such aircraft if they choose not to.
Some UK controllers do occasionally try to give vectors to VFR aircraft outside their airspace (been offered such an option a few times) but pilots are not obliged to comply, which has the potential to cause some antipathy! Obviously, however, the pilot takes over-riding responsibility for the safety of the aircraft, as at all other times.
Radar control or Special VFR - do what ATC say, you are in their airspace and they are controlling you. ATC are obliged to maintain minimum separation criteria so don't expect any sympathy if you don't exactly what you are told.
Radar Advisory (you will be outside their airspace) - probably best to take ATC advice for noise abatement reasons; that is, the noise of your aircraft hitting something!
Radar Info - Act as you see fit on ATC information given of other aircraft in your vicinity, if you don't know, ask for avoiding action / upgrade to radar advisory.
VFR (Inside regulated airspace) - do as for Special VFR if you want to come back the same way next time....
VFR (Outside regulated airspace) Request Flight Information if you want it - do just what you like if you know what you're doing.....but keep a bloody good lookout in any event, especially if I'm coming the other way, please.
Some UK controllers do occasionally try to give vectors to VFR aircraft outside their airspace (been offered such an option a few times) but pilots are not obliged to comply, which has the potential to cause some antipathy! Obviously, however, the pilot takes over-riding responsibility for the safety of the aircraft, as at all other times.
Radar control or Special VFR - do what ATC say, you are in their airspace and they are controlling you. ATC are obliged to maintain minimum separation criteria so don't expect any sympathy if you don't exactly what you are told.
Radar Advisory (you will be outside their airspace) - probably best to take ATC advice for noise abatement reasons; that is, the noise of your aircraft hitting something!
Radar Info - Act as you see fit on ATC information given of other aircraft in your vicinity, if you don't know, ask for avoiding action / upgrade to radar advisory.
VFR (Inside regulated airspace) - do as for Special VFR if you want to come back the same way next time....
VFR (Outside regulated airspace) Request Flight Information if you want it - do just what you like if you know what you're doing.....but keep a bloody good lookout in any event, especially if I'm coming the other way, please.
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At our unit, we get a lot of VFR (usually University Air Squadron) wanting to do a VFR ILS approach, so we generally say:
"Vectors for an ILS approach rwy xx all headings and levels are advisory, report if at any time you are unable to maintain VFR"
That way they know it's VFR, they follow my vectors, if they can't mainatin VFR then they tel me, simple really
"Vectors for an ILS approach rwy xx all headings and levels are advisory, report if at any time you are unable to maintain VFR"
That way they know it's VFR, they follow my vectors, if they can't mainatin VFR then they tel me, simple really
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Thanks for the replies,
sorry for being so vague but didnt want to get too much into the details.Was just looking for ,what i thought might have been, standard rules regarding this situation. Spoke to the pilot concerned and suggested he look a this thread. To satisfy curiosity it occured in the caribbean, barbados to be precise.
thanks again for the replies
avagobro
sorry for being so vague but didnt want to get too much into the details.Was just looking for ,what i thought might have been, standard rules regarding this situation. Spoke to the pilot concerned and suggested he look a this thread. To satisfy curiosity it occured in the caribbean, barbados to be precise.
thanks again for the replies
avagobro
