Heathrow get what they deserve
Ohcirrej
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Hey P7,
Don't you mean "I AM easy"? *wink-wink*
I like you P7, you're a funny guy. I think I'll kill you last.
PS Sorry I can't make you Stag do bro! The Jock wiil take care of you for me.
Don't you mean "I AM easy"? *wink-wink*
I like you P7, you're a funny guy. I think I'll kill you last.
PS Sorry I can't make you Stag do bro! The Jock wiil take care of you for me.
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Capt S,
Yeah coz there was never WIP when I was there!!
Don't get me wrong you should try and get all you can, and I do know how complicated it is and how short staffed you are (and how often Halo gets suspended!!). All I am saying (and I appreciated that Wet Flaps is only trying to provoke a reaction-but that isn't why pprune is here) is that you can't claim that it is harder or more complicated than anywhere else if you haven't worked anywhere else.
Its the guys and galls going area I feel sorry for. At least if you want to LL ATCO's can go work for someone else(as many of us have/are) without having to leave the country or re-train.
Hats off to TC you all do a bloody good job.
Yeah coz there was never WIP when I was there!!
Don't get me wrong you should try and get all you can, and I do know how complicated it is and how short staffed you are (and how often Halo gets suspended!!). All I am saying (and I appreciated that Wet Flaps is only trying to provoke a reaction-but that isn't why pprune is here) is that you can't claim that it is harder or more complicated than anywhere else if you haven't worked anywhere else.
Its the guys and galls going area I feel sorry for. At least if you want to LL ATCO's can go work for someone else(as many of us have/are) without having to leave the country or re-train.
Hats off to TC you all do a bloody good job.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Can someone ''In the smoke'' tell me why Atco 3's are required to undergo assessments for LL,KK and CC when kids from the college are posted to these units,as Atco 2's without this process.
If LL has a staffing problem then perhaps it's self inflicted,and an overhaul of this system is needed.Surely experienced Atco's with multi ratings/validations and OJTI qualifications should be looked at,more on face value and not treated like something the cat dragged in.
I think it's a gross insult that these units, LL,KK and especially CC have this attitude which puts people off thinking of applying,even before the money is taken into account;15K bonus or not.
If LL has a staffing problem then perhaps it's self inflicted,and an overhaul of this system is needed.Surely experienced Atco's with multi ratings/validations and OJTI qualifications should be looked at,more on face value and not treated like something the cat dragged in.
I think it's a gross insult that these units, LL,KK and especially CC have this attitude which puts people off thinking of applying,even before the money is taken into account;15K bonus or not.
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Throw a Dyce,
I got to Heathrow in March 99. Up until late summer '02 I reckon that maybe 10 or 11 people got posted in during that period from other units, both NATS and non-NATS.
Of those, I don't think any made it to validation. Probably the same number of trainees straight from the college got posted in during the same period, and virtually all, if not every one, of them made it.
AFAIK, Anyone wanting to be posted as an ATCO to Heathrow has to undergo an assessment, not just ATCO 3s.
Gonzo.
I got to Heathrow in March 99. Up until late summer '02 I reckon that maybe 10 or 11 people got posted in during that period from other units, both NATS and non-NATS.
Of those, I don't think any made it to validation. Probably the same number of trainees straight from the college got posted in during the same period, and virtually all, if not every one, of them made it.
AFAIK, Anyone wanting to be posted as an ATCO to Heathrow has to undergo an assessment, not just ATCO 3s.
Gonzo.
Join Date: Dec 2001
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more money for Heathrow, more money for saying 'cleared to land' to planes of similar types, flying the same speed and spaced and positioned by real controllers using radars!! more money for saying ' clear take off runway--, surface wind is---' from a runway you don't even have to worry about arrivals on????
Sounds like a cushy number to me....... we all knew at the college that tower and approach was the easy option. More money for area controllers thats what I say!!!!
(discuss)
p.s. re housing costs, it is personal choice that dictates where you want to live, I'm sure there are many 4 bed detached houses in Slough or Bracknell that wouldn't break the bank( I know, i used to live in one!!), it's personal choice that decrees that you want to live in Windsor, Ascot or Wokingham, etc much the same as you have to pay over the odds to live in Wilmslow, Knutsford etc in Manchester
Sounds like a cushy number to me....... we all knew at the college that tower and approach was the easy option. More money for area controllers thats what I say!!!!
(discuss)
p.s. re housing costs, it is personal choice that dictates where you want to live, I'm sure there are many 4 bed detached houses in Slough or Bracknell that wouldn't break the bank( I know, i used to live in one!!), it's personal choice that decrees that you want to live in Windsor, Ascot or Wokingham, etc much the same as you have to pay over the odds to live in Wilmslow, Knutsford etc in Manchester
Ohcirrej
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Hey DD,
2 slight flaws in you argument. Firstly, your comment about "Cleared to land" for similar type, at similar speed etc is kind of sweeping (Now before it starts, I know every unit has it's own complexity issues, so we will not start down that route, I'm being UK specific). For the arrivals controller, throw in the mix of crossing a/c from T4 to get to the north runway, 1 or 2 police helicopters blatting about doing security checks as well as the crosser from the south that didn't take the hold instruction at Bedfont, the Air France that has rolled long and is taking an age to get off the runway, as well as the 777 the Fin controller has stuffed up it's a$$ in an attempt to try and land 48 a/c in an hour. It's the workload I believe that is the underlying issue of Point 7's druken ramblings.
Secondly, I think you'll find that arrivals CAN and DO use the departure runway. This happens when significant inbound delays occur. And chances are if it's busy in the holds, it's busy on the gound. And Departures can and do use the arrival runway as well.
And we won't even mention GMC that has been bandboxed due sickness. Oh, and what's that, very strong wind from the south, looks like 23 operations on its way!
(Sorry Plaz, trying to be mature!)
And in closing,we could start the old Approach/Tower vs Area thing again as well from the ever popular "which is the easyier option" thread rears it's head again. But that has been flogged to death so many times, I think they are talking about making it into a film.
As I said, its a workload thing......................
2 slight flaws in you argument. Firstly, your comment about "Cleared to land" for similar type, at similar speed etc is kind of sweeping (Now before it starts, I know every unit has it's own complexity issues, so we will not start down that route, I'm being UK specific). For the arrivals controller, throw in the mix of crossing a/c from T4 to get to the north runway, 1 or 2 police helicopters blatting about doing security checks as well as the crosser from the south that didn't take the hold instruction at Bedfont, the Air France that has rolled long and is taking an age to get off the runway, as well as the 777 the Fin controller has stuffed up it's a$$ in an attempt to try and land 48 a/c in an hour. It's the workload I believe that is the underlying issue of Point 7's druken ramblings.
Secondly, I think you'll find that arrivals CAN and DO use the departure runway. This happens when significant inbound delays occur. And chances are if it's busy in the holds, it's busy on the gound. And Departures can and do use the arrival runway as well.
And we won't even mention GMC that has been bandboxed due sickness. Oh, and what's that, very strong wind from the south, looks like 23 operations on its way!
(Sorry Plaz, trying to be mature!)
And in closing,we could start the old Approach/Tower vs Area thing again as well from the ever popular "which is the easyier option" thread rears it's head again. But that has been flogged to death so many times, I think they are talking about making it into a film.
As I said, its a workload thing......................
Join Date: Sep 2000
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throw a dyce
Don't feel so hard done to. NATS HR will not permit a student to be posted to Manchester Airport directly from the College. Many have tried (me included many years ago) and none have succeeded. Postings in from outside NATS also are no longer permitted, unlike Heathrow.
All ATCOs, including ATCO2s from CATC, TC and the London airports, wishing to come to Manchester have to "jump through the hoops" as I did 7 years ago. If you're a 3 then it is a promotion and as such you have to be assessed as suitable as you would if you were a 2 and went for an ATCO1 job.
ATCO2s do not have the right of transfer to the unit of their choice either so they too must be assessed. This is to avoid the waste, both of time and money, of relocating the same person twice. There are some who have passed the assessment and then been unable to "validate", but the majority have not had any problems.
There are about 20 being assessed next month for about 5 or 6 places, best of luck to you all.
Not long now...
Don't feel so hard done to. NATS HR will not permit a student to be posted to Manchester Airport directly from the College. Many have tried (me included many years ago) and none have succeeded. Postings in from outside NATS also are no longer permitted, unlike Heathrow.
All ATCOs, including ATCO2s from CATC, TC and the London airports, wishing to come to Manchester have to "jump through the hoops" as I did 7 years ago. If you're a 3 then it is a promotion and as such you have to be assessed as suitable as you would if you were a 2 and went for an ATCO1 job.
ATCO2s do not have the right of transfer to the unit of their choice either so they too must be assessed. This is to avoid the waste, both of time and money, of relocating the same person twice. There are some who have passed the assessment and then been unable to "validate", but the majority have not had any problems.
There are about 20 being assessed next month for about 5 or 6 places, best of luck to you all.
Not long now...
Join Date: Dec 1999
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DangerousD,
I recommend you come for a visit. Maybe you could plug in on bandboxed GMC. Should be easy enough, after all, all we say is "Pushback approved/left/right/straight ahead/give way to/monitor tower on......." Easy!
Gonzo.
I recommend you come for a visit. Maybe you could plug in on bandboxed GMC. Should be easy enough, after all, all we say is "Pushback approved/left/right/straight ahead/give way to/monitor tower on......." Easy!
Gonzo.
Last edited by Gonzo; 23rd Apr 2003 at 19:04.
extra 15K
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AyrMan,
What you took was a large chunk of very quiet airspace which unfortunately caused excessive delays because we had to protect the controllers when we didn't have the staff to split the old 11 & 33. Last week I counted ONE aircraft in the whole sector 33 at 1000-mind you it did appear to be handled competently
What you took was a large chunk of very quiet airspace which unfortunately caused excessive delays because we had to protect the controllers when we didn't have the staff to split the old 11 & 33. Last week I counted ONE aircraft in the whole sector 33 at 1000-mind you it did appear to be handled competently
Join Date: Jul 2001
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If I were to go to LL from here, it would be Tesco finest to Tesco value in one easy step. One which I am unwilling, nay unable to take.