Electronic Strips
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Electronic Strips
Info / Discussion time dear colleagues...(yes, you too TT!)
To continue....
I'm interested in the use of Electronic Strips, the good points, the bad points and the ugly. I'm particularly interested in opinions from anyone who recently stopped using paper and started using the electronics. How easy was it, does it make the job any easier? etc etc.
One particular question. Do the electronics have any advantages over paper?
This is primarily about AREA ops, but do any APP or TWR units use electronics?
Opinions, info please.
Best rgds
BEX
To continue....
I'm interested in the use of Electronic Strips, the good points, the bad points and the ugly. I'm particularly interested in opinions from anyone who recently stopped using paper and started using the electronics. How easy was it, does it make the job any easier? etc etc.
One particular question. Do the electronics have any advantages over paper?
This is primarily about AREA ops, but do any APP or TWR units use electronics?
Opinions, info please.
Best rgds
BEX
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INHO;
Of course there are advantages to electronic strips, or else they wouldn't be used! Agreed, most of them relate to perceived cost savings.....................
Advantage; you can update information instantly- everybody down the line is notified of re-routes etc immediately.
Disadvantage; information can change without you realising it. Strips can disappear, or appear, due to a re-route etc.
It fundamentally changes the way you do the job.
Advantage; you spend a lot more time looking at the screen, because there are no more strips to update and shuffle (they do it themselves).
Disadvantage; keeping the data up to date and accurate can be very distracting and time consuming. It is much harder to plan- your controlling becomes a lot more reactionary. If you do lose the screen, you are f**k*d (depending on contingency arrangements). Allegedly failure-proof systems fail alarmingly more often than advertised. Your systems for processing traffic will become very rigid, as anything non-standard becomes too hard.
I'm sure there's more, but I'll let others have a go.
Of course there are advantages to electronic strips, or else they wouldn't be used! Agreed, most of them relate to perceived cost savings.....................
Advantage; you can update information instantly- everybody down the line is notified of re-routes etc immediately.
Disadvantage; information can change without you realising it. Strips can disappear, or appear, due to a re-route etc.
It fundamentally changes the way you do the job.
Advantage; you spend a lot more time looking at the screen, because there are no more strips to update and shuffle (they do it themselves).
Disadvantage; keeping the data up to date and accurate can be very distracting and time consuming. It is much harder to plan- your controlling becomes a lot more reactionary. If you do lose the screen, you are f**k*d (depending on contingency arrangements). Allegedly failure-proof systems fail alarmingly more often than advertised. Your systems for processing traffic will become very rigid, as anything non-standard becomes too hard.
I'm sure there's more, but I'll let others have a go.
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Thanks Ferris...
Agreed about the sharing of info bit. This already happens at LACC on the planners EFS display.
I'm curious about the ease / difficulty of entering headings/levels/speeds on the electronics. Is this something that gets easy or more natural with practice? Is highlighting possible RADAR conflictions on the strips easy? (I do this now by moving my paper strips about to suit me )
I've been given the impression by some of my colleagues that Electronic strips are something engineers dreamed up with their usual promises of cost savings and efficiency. The actual benefits seem dubious.
Paper still seems to be much more flexible and doesn't disappear or freeze if the power supply is interupted.... But I am trying v hard not to be a Luddite, and am trying to keep an open mind.
Rgds BEX
Agreed about the sharing of info bit. This already happens at LACC on the planners EFS display.
I'm curious about the ease / difficulty of entering headings/levels/speeds on the electronics. Is this something that gets easy or more natural with practice? Is highlighting possible RADAR conflictions on the strips easy? (I do this now by moving my paper strips about to suit me )
I've been given the impression by some of my colleagues that Electronic strips are something engineers dreamed up with their usual promises of cost savings and efficiency. The actual benefits seem dubious.
Paper still seems to be much more flexible and doesn't disappear or freeze if the power supply is interupted.... But I am trying v hard not to be a Luddite, and am trying to keep an open mind.
Rgds BEX
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You tend not to use strips for the 'hot' info like headings. That would go in the data block. The strips are time consuming to manipulate. You tend to use all the graphical interface tools much more eg. re-routing via the mouse and map function. Typing as little as possible. As I said, the way you do it fundamentally changes. Highlighting conflictions on strips? Forget it. You will become totally screen focussed. The strips end up being almost not used at all. You will develop another method of highlighting- such as actually highlighting the data blocks.
You do get much faster as you use it. The trouble is, we were pretty much learning it and using at the same time (and in a fairly quiet environment).
Having said all that, I think most people end up preferring the electronic version. Once it's been debugged and you are fully familiar with it.
You do get much faster as you use it. The trouble is, we were pretty much learning it and using at the same time (and in a fairly quiet environment).
Having said all that, I think most people end up preferring the electronic version. Once it's been debugged and you are fully familiar with it.
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Although I can't provide a perspective on actually using electronic strips in anger, I do think the LACC electronic strips could be better. They are an attempt to provide an exact facsimile of the old paper strips on the screen. Then they tried to figure out how to add some electronic functionality to them.
A better approach to the design would have been to understand what ATCOs do with paper strips and how they do it (e.g. some information may not need to be constantly displayed). The appearance and manipulation of the electronic strips should have reflected this (although this means that the electronic strips may not have looked so similar to paper strips). Given the training you had to undergo anyway, a change in the appearance of the electronic strips to result in more effective ways of working wouldn't have been a hard pill to swallow.
AND with an alternative design for electronic strips maybe things could have been made a bit easier to read (stop me before... oh alright, I'll get me coat
).
A better approach to the design would have been to understand what ATCOs do with paper strips and how they do it (e.g. some information may not need to be constantly displayed). The appearance and manipulation of the electronic strips should have reflected this (although this means that the electronic strips may not have looked so similar to paper strips). Given the training you had to undergo anyway, a change in the appearance of the electronic strips to result in more effective ways of working wouldn't have been a hard pill to swallow.
AND with an alternative design for electronic strips maybe things could have been made a bit easier to read (stop me before... oh alright, I'll get me coat
).
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All good info. Thank you Ferris and Thank you Llamapoo.
The LACC Electronic Strips aren't used by the Tactical, only the Planner and are more of a "Things to do" tool rather than a Separation Tool (and YES, they could have been better).
I'm more interested in how a RADAR controller might use an Electronic Strip display. Ferris has mentioned that "Hot" data (Hdg/lvl/spd) gets entered on the Track block. Nice Idea, but isn't the tube cluttered enough already? And as for "planning" your moves before the a/c call you, as Ferris has also mentioned you might end up controlling by reaction, not pro-action. Not good IMHO.
More comments?
rgds BEX
The LACC Electronic Strips aren't used by the Tactical, only the Planner and are more of a "Things to do" tool rather than a Separation Tool (and YES, they could have been better).
I'm more interested in how a RADAR controller might use an Electronic Strip display. Ferris has mentioned that "Hot" data (Hdg/lvl/spd) gets entered on the Track block. Nice Idea, but isn't the tube cluttered enough already? And as for "planning" your moves before the a/c call you, as Ferris has also mentioned you might end up controlling by reaction, not pro-action. Not good IMHO.
More comments?
rgds BEX
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Bex,
Somewhere on the company intranet there's a demo of the French Digital Strips, could point you to it if I were at work! :-) Also my Dept. has been looking at the concept for some time, but the jury is still out! Currently there are some Human Factors people at LACC doing the Demo of the new and (hopefully) improved TDB's. They are heavily involved in the iFACTS program and could give you a good idea of what the proposals are for electronic strips on that. To my mind they are too small and fiddly but what do I know!?
Somewhere on the company intranet there's a demo of the French Digital Strips, could point you to it if I were at work! :-) Also my Dept. has been looking at the concept for some time, but the jury is still out! Currently there are some Human Factors people at LACC doing the Demo of the new and (hopefully) improved TDB's. They are heavily involved in the iFACTS program and could give you a good idea of what the proposals are for electronic strips on that. To my mind they are too small and fiddly but what do I know!?
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Thanks Take3....
I have seen the HF people and their proposals. Some of them I like, some less so, most are an improvement. Curiously enough the subject of electronic strips came up but they were very loathe to speak about it. Dunno why. Except could it possibly be that they don't want the end user involved for fear that we might not like what they're doing?
I understand some people are VERY protective of THEIR pet projects. Or maybe I've got it all wrong? I do hope so.
Anyway. I think the use of Electronic Strips deserves more discussion and I'd like to know a bit more about the subject.
Thanks for the pointer about the demo. I shall look when I am next at work.
Best rgds
BEX
I have seen the HF people and their proposals. Some of them I like, some less so, most are an improvement. Curiously enough the subject of electronic strips came up but they were very loathe to speak about it. Dunno why. Except could it possibly be that they don't want the end user involved for fear that we might not like what they're doing?
I understand some people are VERY protective of THEIR pet projects. Or maybe I've got it all wrong? I do hope so.Anyway. I think the use of Electronic Strips deserves more discussion and I'd like to know a bit more about the subject.
Thanks for the pointer about the demo. I shall look when I am next at work.
Best rgds
BEX
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In Maastricht UAC we got rid completely of the strips some ten years ago. The strips were only used on the planning side at that stage.For some people it was a dramatic change, some of the older guys trying to write on the screens, but in the end nobody would ever think about going back to strips. In fact all the controllers who have started training after 92 (or was it 93) have never worked with strips in a live environment. I wonder what's taking you so long to implement a stripless environment in the UK?
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I was about to go into the same thing- reinventing the wheel. Why?
It's been proven in several places that it works, that it can be done. Sure, it's a culture shock, but it can be done.
And at the end of the day, these things aren't being done for the controller's benefit. They are the first steps on the path to automation. Have you seen how well the automated, stripless environments dovetail with Data Link? With tools like 'conflict probes' and 'short term conflict alerts', who needs to plan? (ooooohhh, a bit contraversial?) There isn't much planning going on in saturated upper environments. Surely with ADSB and next generation ACAS, the enroute controller's days are numbered? I reckon we'll be really lucky to get another ten years.
It's been proven in several places that it works, that it can be done. Sure, it's a culture shock, but it can be done.
And at the end of the day, these things aren't being done for the controller's benefit. They are the first steps on the path to automation. Have you seen how well the automated, stripless environments dovetail with Data Link? With tools like 'conflict probes' and 'short term conflict alerts', who needs to plan? (ooooohhh, a bit contraversial?) There isn't much planning going on in saturated upper environments. Surely with ADSB and next generation ACAS, the enroute controller's days are numbered? I reckon we'll be really lucky to get another ten years.
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Bexil;
We have talked about some of the stuff that we are doing ad nauseum <G>, but as a refresher, We have the electronic conflict probe / flight planner called URET ( User Request Evaluation Tool.) Probably the thing that most controllers like about it the most is that you don't have to mark strips when you have it. The other is that you don't get the duty of passing around strips, since we don't use ATSA's here.
From looking at it and talking with people, the conflict probe is not any better than a set of good strips when you get out to the 20 minute range. There are just too many ifs to be able to figure out if they are going to be a deal or not. You just look at it, and use it to know that you are going to have to watch a couple of aircraft closely.
What we have been doing is getting the stage ready to move more of the information that the radar controller (tactical in your parlance) needs on the glass in front of them. Our next software drop called BCC-21 will bring into use the fourth line of the data block which you can use if you like. There will be heading and speed control information in there which will pass from sector to sector and serve as appropriate coordination, so we will not have to call other sectors with that information ( We aren't allowed to tell the aircraft to contact London with speed and heading <G>, not that it isn't done.) There will also be an area for free text but that has to be coordinated. There are also going to be three buttons that we have on our DSR Interactive Keypad or (DIK) that you can toggle between type aircraft, destination and one other thing which slips by my mind right now. It is a on and then off as soon as you release it, a rather nice feature. There are other things that are planned for future releases too...
A few years ago, Eurocontrol had a little French gentleman that they had hidden away behind the main display. He had a little system which was a video interface for flight plan information. He called it digistrips. It was WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!! I saw very good uses for it in Enroute, Approach and tower... If the interface could work, it took out most of the problems with digital strips, which is the interface with the computer to let it know what we are doing with the aircraft. This interface mimiced <sp> what we did with strips, so the interface was very fast. However it had the advantages of automatically updating the rest of the software and passing the information on as soon as it was entered. It also allowed for automatic distribution of the flight plan information. It was very well thought out and I felt expandable to ALL of the different types of ATC.
Oh, as soon as I get done with all of my travel, I will make some copies of what I have promised you and get it off to you. It will help explain some of the stuff that we have been talking about. I have been having fun with the NERC stuff. Been showing a few folks what it is that you do. I don't know just how well our system would work for all of you though since we do business quite a bit different than you do on the Planner position.
regards
Scott
We have talked about some of the stuff that we are doing ad nauseum <G>, but as a refresher, We have the electronic conflict probe / flight planner called URET ( User Request Evaluation Tool.) Probably the thing that most controllers like about it the most is that you don't have to mark strips when you have it. The other is that you don't get the duty of passing around strips, since we don't use ATSA's here.
From looking at it and talking with people, the conflict probe is not any better than a set of good strips when you get out to the 20 minute range. There are just too many ifs to be able to figure out if they are going to be a deal or not. You just look at it, and use it to know that you are going to have to watch a couple of aircraft closely.
What we have been doing is getting the stage ready to move more of the information that the radar controller (tactical in your parlance) needs on the glass in front of them. Our next software drop called BCC-21 will bring into use the fourth line of the data block which you can use if you like. There will be heading and speed control information in there which will pass from sector to sector and serve as appropriate coordination, so we will not have to call other sectors with that information ( We aren't allowed to tell the aircraft to contact London with speed and heading <G>, not that it isn't done.) There will also be an area for free text but that has to be coordinated. There are also going to be three buttons that we have on our DSR Interactive Keypad or (DIK) that you can toggle between type aircraft, destination and one other thing which slips by my mind right now. It is a on and then off as soon as you release it, a rather nice feature. There are other things that are planned for future releases too...
A few years ago, Eurocontrol had a little French gentleman that they had hidden away behind the main display. He had a little system which was a video interface for flight plan information. He called it digistrips. It was WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!! I saw very good uses for it in Enroute, Approach and tower... If the interface could work, it took out most of the problems with digital strips, which is the interface with the computer to let it know what we are doing with the aircraft. This interface mimiced <sp> what we did with strips, so the interface was very fast. However it had the advantages of automatically updating the rest of the software and passing the information on as soon as it was entered. It also allowed for automatic distribution of the flight plan information. It was very well thought out and I felt expandable to ALL of the different types of ATC.
Oh, as soon as I get done with all of my travel, I will make some copies of what I have promised you and get it off to you. It will help explain some of the stuff that we have been talking about. I have been having fun with the NERC stuff. Been showing a few folks what it is that you do. I don't know just how well our system would work for all of you though since we do business quite a bit different than you do on the Planner position.
regards
Scott
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My personal findings from working in an old-fashioned paper strip system for 3 years, then electronic strips for 3 years and now back to a not quite so old-fashioned paper strip system, is that strips are a pain in the arse.
I found initially going from paper to electronic strips was traumatic to say the least, like having your security blanket taken off you as a 3 year old. But once you realised the screen told you all you needed to know you found yourself ignoring the electronic strips anyway, and only scanning them because old approach dinosaurs insisted on using them to comunicate flow to us. Other than that they were pretty obsolete.
Going back to paper strips has been even more traumatic cos I find myself controlling and doing all I have to do, and then "fixing up" the strips after the fact. I would love a completely stripless system with extendable data blocks on labels, so when you need to see the route info etc. you can click for it then make it disappear when no longer needed.
PS Ferris any more resignations while I've been away.
I found initially going from paper to electronic strips was traumatic to say the least, like having your security blanket taken off you as a 3 year old. But once you realised the screen told you all you needed to know you found yourself ignoring the electronic strips anyway, and only scanning them because old approach dinosaurs insisted on using them to comunicate flow to us. Other than that they were pretty obsolete.
Going back to paper strips has been even more traumatic cos I find myself controlling and doing all I have to do, and then "fixing up" the strips after the fact. I would love a completely stripless system with extendable data blocks on labels, so when you need to see the route info etc. you can click for it then make it disappear when no longer needed.
PS Ferris any more resignations while I've been away.
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Thanks to all for the info....
Not sure I totally agree that the controllers days are numbered. the task WILL change, as will the technology.
So it looks very much like Electronics for the future. I suppose the trick will be making the "user interface" as friendly as possible. A challenge.
Thanks again for all your replies. I have to say that I get a lot more USEFUL stuff here than at work.
Best rgds
BEX
Not sure I totally agree that the controllers days are numbered. the task WILL change, as will the technology.
So it looks very much like Electronics for the future. I suppose the trick will be making the "user interface" as friendly as possible. A challenge.
Thanks again for all your replies. I have to say that I get a lot more USEFUL stuff here than at work.
Best rgds
BEX
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Don't think of it as electronic strips, see it as an electronic data display. It is much more versatile than paper strips. And as pointed out in another thread, the info on strips can be wrong,or even altered by the unscrupulous.
At Maastricht the combinations of data that can be displayed vary from a list of callsigns about to enter your sector sorted by time, level or position to a full blown description of each flight, eventually down to galley oven temperature when data link is 100% operational
It's up to you how much you take.
Seriously, the data link, already used by the airlines for maintainance and Ops., will be used by us to update the flight plan processing by providing real time info on conditions aloft - this is neccessary for accurate mid-term conflict detection- as well as info such as heading, airspeed/Mach number, RFL, TOD, etc..
It's already active in the States and on the N. Atlantic and will become active at Maastricht shortly. A large number of European States have signed up for it, with the exception of the UK.
At Maastricht the combinations of data that can be displayed vary from a list of callsigns about to enter your sector sorted by time, level or position to a full blown description of each flight, eventually down to galley oven temperature when data link is 100% operational
It's up to you how much you take.Seriously, the data link, already used by the airlines for maintainance and Ops., will be used by us to update the flight plan processing by providing real time info on conditions aloft - this is neccessary for accurate mid-term conflict detection- as well as info such as heading, airspeed/Mach number, RFL, TOD, etc..
It's already active in the States and on the N. Atlantic and will become active at Maastricht shortly. A large number of European States have signed up for it, with the exception of the UK.
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French Digistrips
In case anyone's interested, here's the link to the French (CENA) digistrip system (mentioned on page 1):
Digistrips
Digistrips
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Llamapoo...
I've just watched the 6 min video from the site and must say that "DigiStrips" look VERY VERY Good. This is exactly the sort of user interface that I had in mind. Actually it all looked too good to be true, so what are the drawbacks? Are any of the French Centres using the equipment? The demo looks like PARIS TP sector.
Take3....
Is this the sort of thing that NATS could use? If not why not? ('cos it's French doesn't count). We're supposed to be using COTS stuff aren't we?
LonMore....
Yes, when Datalink really becomes widespread (and you're quite right, it's here now) some sort of electronic interface is going to become a necessity.... for all of us. Thats one of the reasons that I'd quite like to get up and running with some sort of Electronic "data display" sooner rather than later. It's the form that it should take that I wonder about. The DigiStrip example builds on what we are already familiar with, rather than a completely different presentation (NB "Different" doesn't necessarily mean "Better" or indeed "Worse")
Best rgds
BEX
P.S. Can I urge you all to look at the link above and view the VIDEO (it's about half way down the Web page).
I've just watched the 6 min video from the site and must say that "DigiStrips" look VERY VERY Good. This is exactly the sort of user interface that I had in mind. Actually it all looked too good to be true, so what are the drawbacks? Are any of the French Centres using the equipment? The demo looks like PARIS TP sector.
Take3....
Is this the sort of thing that NATS could use? If not why not? ('cos it's French doesn't count). We're supposed to be using COTS stuff aren't we?
LonMore....
Yes, when Datalink really becomes widespread (and you're quite right, it's here now) some sort of electronic interface is going to become a necessity.... for all of us. Thats one of the reasons that I'd quite like to get up and running with some sort of Electronic "data display" sooner rather than later. It's the form that it should take that I wonder about. The DigiStrip example builds on what we are already familiar with, rather than a completely different presentation (NB "Different" doesn't necessarily mean "Better" or indeed "Worse")
Best rgds
BEX
P.S. Can I urge you all to look at the link above and view the VIDEO (it's about half way down the Web page).
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I just had a look at the video. To me it seems to show an unability to let go of the past and take on board a completely new philosophy. It is probably developped for Centres like Aix where the average age is quite high and people would be very reluctant to do the work without strips. The advantage of being able to display your electronic messages on the radar screen is huge, you don't have to take your eyes of the screen and refocus every time. Overhere there are even more and more people who just do not display any electronic messages (on the executive controller position) on the screen but just use the mouse to obtain information out of every label. A lot of 'mouse work' but once you've got used to it it is extremely convenient.
Bexil, you don't really believe that Nats will use something developped in France, do you? Short Term Conflict Alert was fully available to all service providers in Europe since the mid-eighties but still every country wanted something of their own. If I'm not mistaken it was introduced in the UK in 91 and I remember very well the article in some UK newspaper who claimed it to be a 'première'...it was shortly thereafter rectified.
Bexil, you don't really believe that Nats will use something developped in France, do you? Short Term Conflict Alert was fully available to all service providers in Europe since the mid-eighties but still every country wanted something of their own. If I'm not mistaken it was introduced in the UK in 91 and I remember very well the article in some UK newspaper who claimed it to be a 'première'...it was shortly thereafter rectified.