Willo hold at EGKK
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: UK
Willo hold at EGKK
Could someone please clarify a question I have regarding the Willo hold.
My understanding is that you fly a standard ICAO holding pattern from Willo.
However, some people I have flown with suggest that you should fly Willo - Holly - Willo and so on. I can see why they may think this as this is how it is drawn on the Aerad / Thales plates.
Which is correct, my money is on the ICAO hold but it would be nice to get a conclusive answer.
Thanks in advance.
My understanding is that you fly a standard ICAO holding pattern from Willo.
However, some people I have flown with suggest that you should fly Willo - Holly - Willo and so on. I can see why they may think this as this is how it is drawn on the Aerad / Thales plates.
Which is correct, my money is on the ICAO hold but it would be nice to get a conclusive answer.
Thanks in advance.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 0
From: Greystation
Looking at the ever faithful but now extinct paper copy of the MATS Part 2 which has not been updated for over a year now, HOLLY is used to mark the end of the outbound leg for every pattern completed, so it seems its not a standard ICAO hold.
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 220
Likes: 11
From: UK
Zygote is right, HOLLY is only there to stop people routeing direct WILLO when entering the hold; once in the hold it can be ignored. Smilesbaby, HOLLY only happens to be at or near the end of the theoretical, still-air o/b leg at one speed.
Unfortunately, the AIP no longer gives (or I can't find) the textual description of the hold which would give the definitive answer.
Unfortunately, the AIP no longer gives (or I can't find) the textual description of the hold which would give the definitive answer.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 525
Likes: 6
From: UK
Just to confirm WILLO is a standard ICAO hold, ie. HOLLY can be ignored once the 'join' has been completed. HOLLY exists purely to 'force' a sector 3 (direct entry) into the hold at WILLO. This is done because it reduces the amount of 'protected airspace' required on the 'dead side' of the holding axis that is required under sector 1 or 2 joins. In the UK airspace is a precious commodity, especially in the LTMA!!
This is the same for all other UK airports, the UK has no 2 waypoint holds, neither does it have DME based leg lengths. Any marking chart wise which shows a DME distance at the end of the outbound leg dictates the maximum DME prior to turning inbound, so if ICAO timing dictates the turn earlier, then that is what should be flown.
Regards
30W
This is the same for all other UK airports, the UK has no 2 waypoint holds, neither does it have DME based leg lengths. Any marking chart wise which shows a DME distance at the end of the outbound leg dictates the maximum DME prior to turning inbound, so if ICAO timing dictates the turn earlier, then that is what should be flown.
Regards
30W
