Initial calls VFR/GA
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 146
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From: England
Initial calls VFR/GA
Would the pro's please help a hobby pilot with a slight niggle.
I was trained to include the frequency of the atsu I am calling in the initial call along with its call sign and mine. This on the basis that all partys know who's calling whomj, many times I hear calls from pilots who think they have qsy'd but haven't!
One busy day recently I called as usual
"XYZ Radar on 123.4 G-ABCD"
Response
"G-ABCD I know my own frequency pass your message"
This from the tone of the controller took the form a bollocking I thought undeserved.
I couldn't find any guidance in CAP 214, who's right?
I was trained to include the frequency of the atsu I am calling in the initial call along with its call sign and mine. This on the basis that all partys know who's calling whomj, many times I hear calls from pilots who think they have qsy'd but haven't!
One busy day recently I called as usual
"XYZ Radar on 123.4 G-ABCD"
Response
"G-ABCD I know my own frequency pass your message"
This from the tone of the controller took the form a bollocking I thought undeserved.
I couldn't find any guidance in CAP 214, who's right?
Moderator
Joined: Jul 1997
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 3,231
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From: Europe
Not a bollocking, but the frequency is unecessary and wastes RTF time. All you need use are the station idents .... yours and ATCs.
Have a look at the CAP413 Radio Telephony Manual.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413.pdf
Have a look at the CAP413 Radio Telephony Manual.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413.pdf
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 120
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From: United Kingdom
I too was taught to include frequency in the initial call and also when asking for a radio check, but I always felt it was superfluous and never do it now. Some ATSUs specify the information required on first call. I think Coventry is one example and on my last flight into there, my initial call was:
Coventry Approach G-ABCD PA28 inbound with Information W.
Not an ATCO, so I don't know if that was correct but it seemed to concisely cover what they were looking for.
Coventry Approach G-ABCD PA28 inbound with Information W.
Not an ATCO, so I don't know if that was correct but it seemed to concisely cover what they were looking for.
Last edited by Tee; 21st January 2003 at 16:38.
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,212
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From: Anywhere
Why include the frequency - if you're on the right one you'll be heard, if you're not you won't (or will be heard by someone else who will put you right 
)
It is totally superfluous and not required - WF's example of an initial call is much more useful to a busy controller and will actually put you across as being more competent.
CM
)It is totally superfluous and not required - WF's example of an initial call is much more useful to a busy controller and will actually put you across as being more competent.
CM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 86
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From: Gatwick
I'd never really given this any thought until now, but I once had the following exchange with ATC when I was in the circuit having just completed two or three touch-and-goes:
ATC: G-WXYZ So-and-so Tower.
Me: G-WXYZ
ATC: G-YZ please contact me on 123.45
Me: Changing to 123.45, G-YZ.
<Change frequency from tower to approach>
Me: G-WXYZ with you on 123.45
ATC: Thank you G-YZ - number one, report final.
It was the same controller (which I'd expected as the instruction was to "contact me" rather than "contact So-and-so approach") - presumably they were splitting/combining the tower and approach frequencies at the airfield? But was I correct in my initial call on the new frequency, or should I strictly speaking have gone through the whole initial call?
Cheers,
MD.
ATC: G-WXYZ So-and-so Tower.
Me: G-WXYZ
ATC: G-YZ please contact me on 123.45
Me: Changing to 123.45, G-YZ.
<Change frequency from tower to approach>
Me: G-WXYZ with you on 123.45
ATC: Thank you G-YZ - number one, report final.
It was the same controller (which I'd expected as the instruction was to "contact me" rather than "contact So-and-so approach") - presumably they were splitting/combining the tower and approach frequencies at the airfield? But was I correct in my initial call on the new frequency, or should I strictly speaking have gone through the whole initial call?
Cheers,
MD.
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,212
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From: Anywhere
You were correct, no need for the entire 'lifestory' type call. Again no strict need for the frequency but in your scenario it's possibly of help to enable the ATCO to check that you had changed (the respective frequency being transmitted on normally has a light indication when active on the controllers desk / console).
Of course, the big clue here is the word 'contact' - the person taking control already has all your details and so doesn't need to hear them all again.
CM
Of course, the big clue here is the word 'contact' - the person taking control already has all your details and so doesn't need to hear them all again.
CM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 539
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From: Kandahar Afghanistan
David,
The only time that you need to state the frequency is when you are calling FSS (that is here in the US). The reason is that the Flight Service Stations are monitoring various frequencies and they will only key up on the frequency that you called on.
As for calling Air Traffic Control you DO NOT need to state the frequency even though we monitor and transmit on various frequencies.
Take time and visit with some of your local controllers and ask them questions about phraselogy and how to initally call on frequency under various situations.
Mike
FWA
The only time that you need to state the frequency is when you are calling FSS (that is here in the US). The reason is that the Flight Service Stations are monitoring various frequencies and they will only key up on the frequency that you called on.
As for calling Air Traffic Control you DO NOT need to state the frequency even though we monitor and transmit on various frequencies.
Take time and visit with some of your local controllers and ask them questions about phraselogy and how to initally call on frequency under various situations.
Mike
FWA
