The best/worst fam flight I ever had
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Best 11/2 hour in a Hawk from RAF Valley
[I was ] a RAF[VRT] FO
at the time
Worst. A DC10 Manch-Alicante-Manch. I was "invited" by the First Officer. The "original" Capt went sick, and the new guy thought that I was a CAA inspector
. It was only while taxying in at Manch that the Flight Deck Crew realised that I wasn't. Needless to say, the offer of another "Fam Flt" was not taken up
we aim to please it keeps the cleaners happy
[I was ] a RAF[VRT] FO at the timeWorst. A DC10 Manch-Alicante-Manch. I was "invited" by the First Officer. The "original" Capt went sick, and the new guy thought that I was a CAA inspector
. It was only while taxying in at Manch that the Flight Deck Crew realised that I wasn't. Needless to say, the offer of another "Fam Flt" was not taken up we aim to please it keeps the cleaners happy
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Never mind Hew about how legal it is for ATC staff to fly, in my case I was worried that the first officer was on an almost equal position to me! Some 12 years ago I managed to bag a trip on a DC6 to some exotic Caribbean island; on return to base P1 had decided he had a long day and asked the FEng if 'the British guy in the jumpseat' wanted to have a go.
What could I say - 40 minutes in the left hand seat of a REAL aeroplane over those crystal blue waters. I've managed to get a few good trips in my time, but that was the right up next to dogfighting with a Sea Harrier whilst sat in the back of the Boscombe Comet 'Canopus'....
On the subject of fam flights, I seem to remember some ex-Heathrow colleagues (John MacDermot, Derek Harriss RIP and Terry Quantrill I think) getting a ride to Budapest with Malev. The shock came when the captain gladly handed the RTF over to Derek for the entire journey!
And lastlly, there was an 'ATCO scam' at Heathrow whenever anyone had a fam flight with MEA to Beirut; it was deemed by some wag as a good bet that they wouldn't return and took out a (long since removed) short term travel insurance policy from a hole in the wall in T2!
What could I say - 40 minutes in the left hand seat of a REAL aeroplane over those crystal blue waters. I've managed to get a few good trips in my time, but that was the right up next to dogfighting with a Sea Harrier whilst sat in the back of the Boscombe Comet 'Canopus'....
On the subject of fam flights, I seem to remember some ex-Heathrow colleagues (John MacDermot, Derek Harriss RIP and Terry Quantrill I think) getting a ride to Budapest with Malev. The shock came when the captain gladly handed the RTF over to Derek for the entire journey!
And lastlly, there was an 'ATCO scam' at Heathrow whenever anyone had a fam flight with MEA to Beirut; it was deemed by some wag as a good bet that they wouldn't return and took out a (long since removed) short term travel insurance policy from a hole in the wall in T2!
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Jeapes Tours
Anyone remember ‘Jeapes tours’
Back in 1975 Flt Lt John Jeapes from LATCC Mil (God Bless Him) arranged many fam flights for RAF ATCOs.
One which he arranged at very short notice for me was a ‘Tradeswinds’ cargo 707 flight out of Gatwick going East for about 12 days – was I interested ? Of course John.
So I turned up at Gatwick at 0400 on a Sunday morning after a fantastic party in London and was poured onto the aircraft. Thanks Capt.
I woke up with a headache and stumbled into the cockpit to make my apologies and to find out where I was heading. As I looked out of the cockpit all I could see was sand and mortar emplacements as we were on final approach to some airfield. I asked where were we going and was told ‘Benghazi’. Now I was a Flight Lieutenant RAF ATCO (the crew thought that I was a Civil Aviation Authority ATCO from LATCC) and this was a Libyan Airbase with Russian MiGs. (Gulp). After landing a Russian Air Force Officer entered the cockpit and asked the Tradeswind crew, who were all wearing company uniforms ‘ Who is this’ pointing his gun at me. (My life flashed before me – the headlines in the Daily Mirror “ RAF spy captured on Russian airbase). They replied nonchalantly ‘ he’s only an ATCO on a fam flight.
The crew then went walkabout to look at all the MiGs on the flight line whilst the aircraft was refuelled for cash at bargain fuel prices. I hid in the cabin.
Next stop was Mogadishu where the aircraft was stopped from departing to Bombay due to red tape. I offered to go to the control tower to see if I could help. The Colonel in charge of ATC was a fellow student on my RAF Shawbury course so after swapping tales the aircraft was up and away within minutes. This returned my credibility no end.
We landed in Bombay in a storm and then flew to Hong Kong and Taipei. Karachi was next and then to Liverpool where I caught a train back to Gatwick.
Now that was a fam flight to remember.
Gisajob
Back in 1975 Flt Lt John Jeapes from LATCC Mil (God Bless Him) arranged many fam flights for RAF ATCOs.
One which he arranged at very short notice for me was a ‘Tradeswinds’ cargo 707 flight out of Gatwick going East for about 12 days – was I interested ? Of course John.
So I turned up at Gatwick at 0400 on a Sunday morning after a fantastic party in London and was poured onto the aircraft. Thanks Capt.
I woke up with a headache and stumbled into the cockpit to make my apologies and to find out where I was heading. As I looked out of the cockpit all I could see was sand and mortar emplacements as we were on final approach to some airfield. I asked where were we going and was told ‘Benghazi’. Now I was a Flight Lieutenant RAF ATCO (the crew thought that I was a Civil Aviation Authority ATCO from LATCC) and this was a Libyan Airbase with Russian MiGs. (Gulp). After landing a Russian Air Force Officer entered the cockpit and asked the Tradeswind crew, who were all wearing company uniforms ‘ Who is this’ pointing his gun at me. (My life flashed before me – the headlines in the Daily Mirror “ RAF spy captured on Russian airbase). They replied nonchalantly ‘ he’s only an ATCO on a fam flight.
The crew then went walkabout to look at all the MiGs on the flight line whilst the aircraft was refuelled for cash at bargain fuel prices. I hid in the cabin.
Next stop was Mogadishu where the aircraft was stopped from departing to Bombay due to red tape. I offered to go to the control tower to see if I could help. The Colonel in charge of ATC was a fellow student on my RAF Shawbury course so after swapping tales the aircraft was up and away within minutes. This returned my credibility no end.
We landed in Bombay in a storm and then flew to Hong Kong and Taipei. Karachi was next and then to Liverpool where I caught a train back to Gatwick.
Now that was a fam flight to remember.
Gisajob
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The worst fam flight was CYP to Larnaca. Having handed the letter of introduction to the cabin crew, we had to wait until all the kids on board visited the flight deck first.
We got 10 minutes in the cruise and then were asked to leave.
The return flight was slightly better, apart from the outbound Captain who was dead heading back to London totally ignoring us.
Had a few where no invite at all to the flight deck (EIN and SAS). Having said that, I have also had good flights with EIN and SAS.
All the BAW transatlantic fam flights have been excellent. Made to feel really welcome by the flight deck and treated very well by the cabin crew. Normally sat in business or first (even allowed a few hours sleep in a crew bunk behind the flight deck.) Crews were always very generous when we socialised at destination.
Thanks B.A
We got 10 minutes in the cruise and then were asked to leave.
The return flight was slightly better, apart from the outbound Captain who was dead heading back to London totally ignoring us.
Had a few where no invite at all to the flight deck (EIN and SAS). Having said that, I have also had good flights with EIN and SAS.
All the BAW transatlantic fam flights have been excellent. Made to feel really welcome by the flight deck and treated very well by the cabin crew. Normally sat in business or first (even allowed a few hours sleep in a crew bunk behind the flight deck.) Crews were always very generous when we socialised at destination.
Thanks B.A
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Can I get some idea of the rules for UK based ATCO famil flights? In oz they have just reinstated the program with QFA but it can only be a same day return flight... ie, pretty much useless unless you are really stuck for things to do on a rostered day off.
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375ml - the answer at the moment is that we are not allowed at all.
No - one is 100% sure of the reason - but it is believed to be because the CAA have put the restriction on, but who knows?
One thing is for certain, it is clearly detrimental to ATCO's wanting to learn more.
B-L
No - one is 100% sure of the reason - but it is believed to be because the CAA have put the restriction on, but who knows?
One thing is for certain, it is clearly detrimental to ATCO's wanting to learn more.
B-L
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Flower
Absolutely amazing to read your account of your flight to Berlin with Maersk. I was the F/O that day and I remember it like it was yesterday. Just about everything that could go wrong did go wrong (on the ground I may hasten to add!!!). Don't remember the bit about the CBs though!
The Captain that day has now retired from airline flying and is passing on his vast knowledge to student PPLs at Wellesborne. He was affectionately known , in his own words , as "The Old Phart"
Are you still at BHX?
Absolutely amazing to read your account of your flight to Berlin with Maersk. I was the F/O that day and I remember it like it was yesterday. Just about everything that could go wrong did go wrong (on the ground I may hasten to add!!!). Don't remember the bit about the CBs though!
The Captain that day has now retired from airline flying and is passing on his vast knowledge to student PPLs at Wellesborne. He was affectionately known , in his own words , as "The Old Phart"
Are you still at BHX?
Just two of many memorable fam flights. JFK-LHR on the J/S of Concorde including the 31L Canarsie departure - and no jetlag after an eastbound oceanic flight, and, in 1970, taking the L/H seat 5mins after take-off until TOD on a PMI-MAN Dan-Air Comet, navigating (i.e. setting up the VORs NDBs etc) and doing the R/T.
On the subject of third parties flying the a/c, I remember in the late sixties a Cambrian Airways Viscount Captain who regularly took his 16 year old son along and allowed him to fly the entire trip including the take-off and landing. This was on the night time LPL-BFS newspaper flights. I, as the only pax, was once allowed to fly an Air Anglia PA-31 for about 25 mins, some of it IMC
Unfortunately today there are too many sad people like Hew Jampton in the aviation world
The good days are over 
P.S. I recently heard from a top neddy at BA that Fam Flights are to be reintroduced in the not too distant future but probably not to US destinations.
On the subject of third parties flying the a/c, I remember in the late sixties a Cambrian Airways Viscount Captain who regularly took his 16 year old son along and allowed him to fly the entire trip including the take-off and landing. This was on the night time LPL-BFS newspaper flights. I, as the only pax, was once allowed to fly an Air Anglia PA-31 for about 25 mins, some of it IMC
Unfortunately today there are too many sad people like Hew Jampton in the aviation world
The good days are over P.S. I recently heard from a top neddy at BA that Fam Flights are to be reintroduced in the not too distant future but probably not to US destinations.
Avman, if One Kemble Street want a final nail in the coffin of the Fam Flight scheme, you and certain other posters have supplied it.
If "the good days" encompassed unqualified people flying commercial aircraft (including to my mind sitting in a control seat in flight) with the consequences like the accident in Russia or a comparatively recent alleged level bust in the UK then it is good that they are over. It's quite worrying that people like you probably hold ATCO licences.
If "the good days" encompassed unqualified people flying commercial aircraft (including to my mind sitting in a control seat in flight) with the consequences like the accident in Russia or a comparatively recent alleged level bust in the UK then it is good that they are over. It's quite worrying that people like you probably hold ATCO licences.
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Come on let's get some perspective here. We all know that in the past things went on that wouldn't even be a starter today, but the industry has developed especially over the last 10/15 years so the kind of things mentioned earlier have been pretty well if not totally eradicated.
There is a very good educational case for Fam flights to exist both for the ATCO and also for the flight crews. If the right balance is struck- and in my experience nowadays it is-i then there is no need for the suspension to continue.
PS. My vivid memory was a Laker A300 ferrying to Palma from MAN. At FL370 ALL the crew and I except the Pilot Flying were in the forward hold -accessed I seem to remember beneath the Jump Seat, no doubt I'll be corrected if wrong -dancing to music on a cassette recorder with a few tinnies.
Ah the Good Old Days 
There is a very good educational case for Fam flights to exist both for the ATCO and also for the flight crews. If the right balance is struck- and in my experience nowadays it is-i then there is no need for the suspension to continue.
PS. My vivid memory was a Laker A300 ferrying to Palma from MAN. At FL370 ALL the crew and I except the Pilot Flying were in the forward hold -accessed I seem to remember beneath the Jump Seat, no doubt I'll be corrected if wrong -dancing to music on a cassette recorder with a few tinnies.
Ah the Good Old Days
Hew Jampton ,
I'm confident that I represent the majority. You on the other hand represent the minority. Unfortunately, today, the world is ruled by minorities. It will soon I'm sure be made illegal to have any fun at all in life. Simplifying a complex issue I'd say that that's why there's more stress than ever in our business: too many idiotic rules and regulations and having to watch your back every second. I have lived for aviation since the age of six. Now, I'm rapidly losing interest and can't wait to get out.
I'm confident that I represent the majority. You on the other hand represent the minority. Unfortunately, today, the world is ruled by minorities. It will soon I'm sure be made illegal to have any fun at all in life. Simplifying a complex issue I'd say that that's why there's more stress than ever in our business: too many idiotic rules and regulations and having to watch your back every second. I have lived for aviation since the age of six. Now, I'm rapidly losing interest and can't wait to get out.
