What will the summer be like at LACC
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Join Date: Aug 2001
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What will the summer be like at LACC
Being based at LACC, the general feeling is that the coming summer will prove to be worse in terms of service to our customers than last year.
Staff numbers are down (more retirements than new validations) and same method of operations.
Mgt have asked for ATCOs to volunteer for extra duties, but not the ATSAs; so no extra sectors will be open.
Am I right, or do you know otherwise.
Staff numbers are down (more retirements than new validations) and same method of operations.
Mgt have asked for ATCOs to volunteer for extra duties, but not the ATSAs; so no extra sectors will be open.
Am I right, or do you know otherwise.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Figures I have gleaned from fairly reliable sources indicate this years summer ATCO staffing likely to be around 322 compared to 2002 being based on 339.
Another giant leap backwards.
Without going into too many identifying details a recent cost saving change at West Drayton will recover £200,000 per year.
Unfortunately it cost £3m to implement!!
But will free up dosh, no doubt, to pay cheese & ham's bonus.
Superb
Another giant leap backwards.
Without going into too many identifying details a recent cost saving change at West Drayton will recover £200,000 per year.
Unfortunately it cost £3m to implement!!
But will free up dosh, no doubt, to pay cheese & ham's bonus.
Superb
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Something else that needs addressing as well.
Two weeks time will see the anniversary of LACC Swanwick "opening" for business. Now, I have little doubt that the "spin doctors" have already prepared their press releases about how it's all been a glowing success.
Before they actually release their "half truths", they might like to consider the facts.
1) LACC Swanwick has directly been the cause of the biggest ATC delays in UK ATC history .
2) There have never been enough operational staff to run LACC, and nor will there be for the next few YEARS
3) LATCC (West Drayton) would have handled the 2002 traffic with virtually no delays.
4) LACC Swanwick is far more labour intensive than LATCC.
5) There are still major problems with the equipment and environment at LACC.
6) Sector capacity increases are minimal, and in several cases LOWER than available at LATCC.
So, although Swanwick does work, it cannot be described as a "glowing success". It hasn't been. It is merely a qualified success, no more.
This is a request to NATS spokespeople. If you MUST mark this sad anniversary, tell the truth. The good and the BAD, to the media. That way you might just earn a little respect. Trotting out the party line that "everything in the garden is rosy" just serves to annoy.
Thank you
Rgds BEX
Two weeks time will see the anniversary of LACC Swanwick "opening" for business. Now, I have little doubt that the "spin doctors" have already prepared their press releases about how it's all been a glowing success.
Before they actually release their "half truths", they might like to consider the facts.
1) LACC Swanwick has directly been the cause of the biggest ATC delays in UK ATC history .
2) There have never been enough operational staff to run LACC, and nor will there be for the next few YEARS
3) LATCC (West Drayton) would have handled the 2002 traffic with virtually no delays.
4) LACC Swanwick is far more labour intensive than LATCC.
5) There are still major problems with the equipment and environment at LACC.
6) Sector capacity increases are minimal, and in several cases LOWER than available at LATCC.
So, although Swanwick does work, it cannot be described as a "glowing success". It hasn't been. It is merely a qualified success, no more.
This is a request to NATS spokespeople. If you MUST mark this sad anniversary, tell the truth. The good and the BAD, to the media. That way you might just earn a little respect. Trotting out the party line that "everything in the garden is rosy" just serves to annoy.
Thank you
Rgds BEX
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No, I don't.
But.... There is a NATS spokesperson who has, in the past, shown some ability to search out the truth. I am hoping that he will do so again and perhaps, just this once, publish the truth without being swayed by NATS management.
He knows who he is, and I know that he reads this. Are you listening Wilbur?
rgds BEX
But.... There is a NATS spokesperson who has, in the past, shown some ability to search out the truth. I am hoping that he will do so again and perhaps, just this once, publish the truth without being swayed by NATS management.
He knows who he is, and I know that he reads this. Are you listening Wilbur?
rgds BEX
It is not only this summer that is the problem but the news that NATS are looking to save ANOTHER £100 million to stave off difficulties is sure to make matters worse!! Especially when one proposal is to defer 2 student intakes which effectively means pushing all the courses back by 6 months. reducing the amount of trainee ATCO's arriving at NERC by 20-22 controllers in 2004/5. A good way of solving the staffing problems there!!
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Its very unfortunate but NATS used to exist to provide the best ATC service in the world. Now we exist to repay loans. That is the simple truth behind all of this. We are here to make sure that the banks get their money.
Is there another way of getting staff into the ops room at LACC and is there a better way of getting NERC to do what YOU want it to?
The current reporting system does not seem to work too well...
Is there another way of getting staff into the ops room at LACC and is there a better way of getting NERC to do what YOU want it to?
The current reporting system does not seem to work too well...
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One proposal is to defer 2 student intakes which effectively means pushing all the courses back by 6 months.
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63000TZ wrote:
NATS part of the deal with the banks, as reported by RE in his first phone brief of the New Year, is that the company has to make savings of £200 million over the next four years.
WF.
It is not only this summer that is the problem but the news that NATS are looking to save ANOTHER £100 million to stave off difficulties is sure to make matters worse!!
WF.
All is rumour, counter-rumour, proposal and speculation at present, but it has apparently been suggested in certain quarters that two Student ATCO courses scheduled for summer 2003, whose members are destined for NERC, are cancelled. This will, it is alleged, save about £50 million in the financial year (quite how the sums add up I can't quite see).
Meanwhile, the validity courses (whatever their acronym is this week) will continue as planned. This will have the long-term beneficial effect of reducing the training backlog at NERC, whilst having the less-beneficial effect of reducing the time that students spend on assistant duties gaining knowledge and experience by osmosis.
Meanwhile the latest NATS propaganda sheet proudly proclaims the vast investment in the new building at Solent Business Park which replaces OKS. It seems to me that NATS has lost track of what it is trying to achieve, prefering to invest in real estate rather than staff. Maybe that's how to get an obscene bonus next year!!!
Meanwhile, the validity courses (whatever their acronym is this week) will continue as planned. This will have the long-term beneficial effect of reducing the training backlog at NERC, whilst having the less-beneficial effect of reducing the time that students spend on assistant duties gaining knowledge and experience by osmosis.
Meanwhile the latest NATS propaganda sheet proudly proclaims the vast investment in the new building at Solent Business Park which replaces OKS. It seems to me that NATS has lost track of what it is trying to achieve, prefering to invest in real estate rather than staff. Maybe that's how to get an obscene bonus next year!!!
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All,
Reading this all has been quite amazing, can't believe that there is such a shortage of staff and NATS are still making me wait a year to start training. As a result I am seriously considering whether I can a) afford and b) have the inclination to hang around for that period of time.
I am sure that I am not the only one, so have the situation that you need ATCO's, but the way NATS is set at the moment you are not getting them due to the time lag involved.
Reading this all has been quite amazing, can't believe that there is such a shortage of staff and NATS are still making me wait a year to start training. As a result I am seriously considering whether I can a) afford and b) have the inclination to hang around for that period of time.
I am sure that I am not the only one, so have the situation that you need ATCO's, but the way NATS is set at the moment you are not getting them due to the time lag involved.
To clarify the post that I made, for the benefit of cb9002 and others. Yes the proposal is to delay 2 student intakes giving a pause of intakes for 9 months. This will allow the development of the new area course to be developed during this time. As N-Nigit suggests the intention is to take the hit on the ATSA positions and continue the Swanwick training courses as planned. This means that there will be a shortfall of about 15 to 20 students fulfilling ATSA positions by early-mid 2005. The students will move to the SVC within a few weeks of arriving at LACC. In the present financial climate the shortfall would not be made up by recruitment so that leaves few options, apart from asking people to work more hours by one method or another!! Look forward to our staff problems being solved soon!!
Whether this revised training system will increase the success rate remains to be seen
Whether this revised training system will increase the success rate remains to be seen
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ATSA staffing at Swanwick is already tight. With the present method of ops, a sector can not be opened without a dedicated ATSA. With ATSAs being so short it will not be long before sectors are not opened purely because of a shortage of ATSAs.
The aforementioned strategy will further reduce the ATSA compliment as student controllers will not be working in the A position for any significant period of time. This will almost certainly lead to sectors being closed; unless someone has a cunning plan to move away from the T, P and A concept.
The aforementioned strategy will further reduce the ATSA compliment as student controllers will not be working in the A position for any significant period of time. This will almost certainly lead to sectors being closed; unless someone has a cunning plan to move away from the T, P and A concept.
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63000
Which of the student intakes are going to be delayed, do you know?
I have been assigned to start the July '03 course so if its definitely going to be this summer's courses that are delayed, does this mean i'll be put back by 9 months?? (although there's already rumours that about 15 of the people assigned to July '03 will be put back to october, due to people having to resit modules!!)
Would it not be better to stop the recruitment process NOW and get all the people through CATC who are already waiting, then stop intakes for 9 months? Surely a better option, rather than putting us back by another 9 months, especially since it's already been a year since being told we were successful at the interviews!!
FB
Which of the student intakes are going to be delayed, do you know?
I have been assigned to start the July '03 course so if its definitely going to be this summer's courses that are delayed, does this mean i'll be put back by 9 months?? (although there's already rumours that about 15 of the people assigned to July '03 will be put back to october, due to people having to resit modules!!)
Would it not be better to stop the recruitment process NOW and get all the people through CATC who are already waiting, then stop intakes for 9 months? Surely a better option, rather than putting us back by another 9 months, especially since it's already been a year since being told we were successful at the interviews!!
FB
