NATS College of ATC Bournemouth
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NATS College of ATC Bournemouth
Anyone here could provide the exact address of the college and recommend on accommodation nearby? Any help would be much appreciated!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: By the Sea-side
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The College of Knowledge can be found at:-
NATS College of Air Traffic Control,
Bournemouth International Airport,
Christchurch,
Dorset
BH23 6DF
United Kingdom
For all things accomodation, either write to Mrs Karen Foster at the above address, or telephone on
+44 1202 472256
Are you one of the students on the forthcoming HK Aerodrome/Approach course?
NATS College of Air Traffic Control,
Bournemouth International Airport,
Christchurch,
Dorset
BH23 6DF
United Kingdom
For all things accomodation, either write to Mrs Karen Foster at the above address, or telephone on
+44 1202 472256
Are you one of the students on the forthcoming HK Aerodrome/Approach course?
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: hants
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NATS college of ATC
If NATS management is serious about increasing staff numbers lets look at the college of ATC at bournmouth. It really is time this establishment was given a thorough clear out and not used as a rest home for the infirm or incompetent. A lot of the problems that the units have with training can be traced directly back to the college and some extremely dated techniques being taught.
In this age where the customer rules, we at the units(as customers of the college) should be insisting that the end product, ie the student, be of a reasonable standard.
We should certainly not return instructors to the college who have failed to validate at units after leaving the college.
A recent attempt to get valid atco's to instruct there resulted in one of the better instructors at LACC being marginalised and finally forced out for trying to teach modern techniques applicable to busy and complex airspace.
In this age where the customer rules, we at the units(as customers of the college) should be insisting that the end product, ie the student, be of a reasonable standard.
We should certainly not return instructors to the college who have failed to validate at units after leaving the college.
A recent attempt to get valid atco's to instruct there resulted in one of the better instructors at LACC being marginalised and finally forced out for trying to teach modern techniques applicable to busy and complex airspace.
Last edited by bwatchbabe; 28th Nov 2002 at 10:26.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe NATS should stop taking on contracts for training foreign students, and use the resources that are then freed up to train the NATS students who are having to 'hold'
It's about time NATS got this staff shortage thing sorted.
TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN = VALIDATIONS!
It's about time NATS got this staff shortage thing sorted.
TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN = VALIDATIONS!
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Surrey, Uk
Age: 72
Posts: 1,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bwatchbabe.
You have hit the nail right on the head.
For too long the CATC has been a dumping ground for the detritus of ATC. In recent years this has begun to reflect in the standard of the end product ie the student. It's not their fault that most are rubbish. It's the fault of the system that 'trained' them. The CATC is rotten from the top man down.
Mr G.
You have hit the nail right on the head.
For too long the CATC has been a dumping ground for the detritus of ATC. In recent years this has begun to reflect in the standard of the end product ie the student. It's not their fault that most are rubbish. It's the fault of the system that 'trained' them. The CATC is rotten from the top man down.
Mr G.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Wivenhoe, not too far from the Clacton VOR
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr G and BwatchBabe. I'm not at all sure that this is the right thread to be slagging off CATC. You are by all means entitled to whatever weird opinions you may have, but to air them in response to a plea from overseas for directions is a bit much.
Why don't you start a new thread, or better still, come to CATC and see if you could hack it as an instructor. Somehow I would doubt it - being dogmatic, domineering, opinionated and small-minded are not the best qualities for instructional purposes.
For Vectorline's info, training Hong Kong staff on Aerodrome and Approach in no way takes resources from the Area training side, so unless you know what you are mouthing off about, shut up or simply demonstrate how ignorant you are.
ATCWannabe, you will find College instructors much more polite, like me and Dances with Boffins!
Why don't you start a new thread, or better still, come to CATC and see if you could hack it as an instructor. Somehow I would doubt it - being dogmatic, domineering, opinionated and small-minded are not the best qualities for instructional purposes.
For Vectorline's info, training Hong Kong staff on Aerodrome and Approach in no way takes resources from the Area training side, so unless you know what you are mouthing off about, shut up or simply demonstrate how ignorant you are.
ATCWannabe, you will find College instructors much more polite, like me and Dances with Boffins!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: swanwick
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The staff at the college teach directly from MATS part one per batum. They are there to provide a basis on which to build from, LACC is very different to LTCC SCATCC Manc. etc etc.
From a LACC point of view at least, most trainees will have held for at least 18 months before starting on radar. It's not surprising the standard is poor, and I don't think we should be wholly blaming the instructors at the college.
The whole system needs to be shook up and it won't be for a long time that operational units are up to numbers. Untill this happens only the "infirm or incompetent" (sorry Steph and others) will be released to instruct at the college.
roger
From a LACC point of view at least, most trainees will have held for at least 18 months before starting on radar. It's not surprising the standard is poor, and I don't think we should be wholly blaming the instructors at the college.
The whole system needs to be shook up and it won't be for a long time that operational units are up to numbers. Untill this happens only the "infirm or incompetent" (sorry Steph and others) will be released to instruct at the college.
roger
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: south coast Bournemouth Area
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
slagging off's?
Thanks come home and read this uninformed claptrap
We at the college work damn hard providing trainees
the tuition that is laidout and required
mostly for nothing or a box of sweets
strange how fast the knifes appear and
the finger pointing starts after you've left
many thanks for your continuing support
colleagues ?
MM
We at the college work damn hard providing trainees
the tuition that is laidout and required
mostly for nothing or a box of sweets
strange how fast the knifes appear and
the finger pointing starts after you've left
many thanks for your continuing support
colleagues ?
MM
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Berks
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The staff at the college teach directly from MATS part one per batum
On the subject of the quality of CATC instructors, if the semi-literate writings of mysteryman - "slagging off's", "laidout", "knifes" etc, - are indicative of their general level of education, may the Lord have mercy on their students!
NB
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: hants
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Touched a nerve have I?
Roger, I already hack it as an instructor and an examiner and a truce assessor. I agree with you that the whole system of training within Nats needs a shake up but lets not try to defend the indefensible. The college is a shambles and needs a lot more input from valid controllers from all units.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: By the Sea-side
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whilst not seeking to prevent any free and frank exchange of views about the merits or otherwise of CATC, I would like to point out to our bretheren along the coast that unlike LACC, CATC has to operate in a competitive market. Would anyone wishing to further this conversation please therefore continue it on the NATS forum, where hopefully we can have a good old airing of opinion, without any non-NATS eavesdropping.
This thread started as a request for information, from a future student who will be attending the College as a part of a contract which has had, and will have, no impact on Area Training at all. All BWB and co have done is given this person a thoroughly un-professional display before they've even arrived in country. Congratulations.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=73975
This thread started as a request for information, from a future student who will be attending the College as a part of a contract which has had, and will have, no impact on Area Training at all. All BWB and co have done is given this person a thoroughly un-professional display before they've even arrived in country. Congratulations.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=73975
Last edited by Dances with Boffins; 29th Nov 2002 at 11:12.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: hants
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would I discuss this matter further with you when you display exactly the attitude and blinkered opinions that create the problem. As for red angry faces.... Most mature and professional!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: swanwick
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NBanker
thanks for the correction, me english ain't much gooder but it looked good at the time(after more than a couple)
bwatchbabe
I semi hack the same LCE OJTI thing and mainly blame the stagnent training system once they leave the college.(this is slowly changing)
Having said that if they could release valid ATCOS to teach students this would be an excellent idea, although with my earlier point this will not happen for years.
That's about it for now..(apologies for any spelling or grammar mistakes, I'm sure you all get the idea)
roger
thanks for the correction, me english ain't much gooder but it looked good at the time(after more than a couple)
bwatchbabe
I semi hack the same LCE OJTI thing and mainly blame the stagnent training system once they leave the college.(this is slowly changing)
Having said that if they could release valid ATCOS to teach students this would be an excellent idea, although with my earlier point this will not happen for years.
That's about it for now..(apologies for any spelling or grammar mistakes, I'm sure you all get the idea)
roger
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Poole
Age: 76
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So its time to rubbish the college again is it?
At CATC we are always looking for suitable instructors, both Area & Aerodrome/Approach disciplines.
Why not apply and make your contribution to changing what you perceive to be wrong.
It is a rewarding job - taking new students from off the streets and nurturing them through to graduation.
Perhaps you are worried that you would not make the grade as an instructor?
Put your money where your mouth is, or shut up!
At CATC we are always looking for suitable instructors, both Area & Aerodrome/Approach disciplines.
Why not apply and make your contribution to changing what you perceive to be wrong.
It is a rewarding job - taking new students from off the streets and nurturing them through to graduation.
Perhaps you are worried that you would not make the grade as an instructor?
Put your money where your mouth is, or shut up!
Last edited by Honey Monster; 29th Nov 2002 at 23:23.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wet side of the Severn Bridge
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A student's point of view -
As has already been said - you could get a pretty negative view of CATC from reading this thread - So here's my £0.02s worth as a recent 'product' of CATC. :
The place aint perfect, but it works. From starting at CATC to validating at my unit took 20 months (and I was not the first off my course to validate) - and that is due to the high quality of the training and the insructors (both at CATC and my unit).
PA
The place aint perfect, but it works. From starting at CATC to validating at my unit took 20 months (and I was not the first off my course to validate) - and that is due to the high quality of the training and the insructors (both at CATC and my unit).
PA
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: LHR/EGLL
Age: 45
Posts: 4,392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thought I'd add my thoughts. I went through the college between March 98 and March 99.
First of all it's great fun, but that also depends on your fellow students as well as the instructors and the environment. I found that on the whole the Instructors work hard to give you the help that's required. Of course, as in any training situation, some work harder and give more help than others. Some had a better (or perhaps I should say better for me) training technique than others. I don't know how many ADC/APR instructors there were at the time, but I'd say there was only one from whom I gained absolutely nothing (and it may not be the one who immediately comes to mind, for my contemporaries!). I had a nose around when I came down for my OJTI course in March, sat in with a few sim runs. It's a shame that one of the College instructors who's visited LHR for Operational Refresher Training actually fell asleep while sitting next to me, so much for finding out how the 'real world' do it. Though maybe that says more about my controlling technique than it does about him?
Honey Monster, I agree with you about the rewards of being an instructor, and that really appeals to me, but something that I'd be afraid of is losing capacity if I was at CATC for the long term. I can feel I'm rusty on bandboxed GMC after two cycles' leave!
Gonzo.
First of all it's great fun, but that also depends on your fellow students as well as the instructors and the environment. I found that on the whole the Instructors work hard to give you the help that's required. Of course, as in any training situation, some work harder and give more help than others. Some had a better (or perhaps I should say better for me) training technique than others. I don't know how many ADC/APR instructors there were at the time, but I'd say there was only one from whom I gained absolutely nothing (and it may not be the one who immediately comes to mind, for my contemporaries!). I had a nose around when I came down for my OJTI course in March, sat in with a few sim runs. It's a shame that one of the College instructors who's visited LHR for Operational Refresher Training actually fell asleep while sitting next to me, so much for finding out how the 'real world' do it. Though maybe that says more about my controlling technique than it does about him?
Honey Monster, I agree with you about the rewards of being an instructor, and that really appeals to me, but something that I'd be afraid of is losing capacity if I was at CATC for the long term. I can feel I'm rusty on bandboxed GMC after two cycles' leave!
Gonzo.
Partly Achieved
Thank you for your far more balanced comment - that a trainee's success depends very much on the combination of instruction (the whole system as well as the individuals involved) at both the Colleges and on the units.
Bwatchbabe's libellous and unprofessional ravings achieve nothing useful. If her (?) alleged qualifications are correct, we ought to expect something far more detailed and constructive from her. Has (s)he has ever considered whether her own contribution to the training system is up to standard?
If the College or the system is so poor, how is it that all the experts who criticise it have managed to succeed? But then, we all know the definition of an expert!
2 S
"I wonder if (s)he's the right man for the job?" - Major H Grytpype-Thynne.
Thank you for your far more balanced comment - that a trainee's success depends very much on the combination of instruction (the whole system as well as the individuals involved) at both the Colleges and on the units.
Bwatchbabe's libellous and unprofessional ravings achieve nothing useful. If her (?) alleged qualifications are correct, we ought to expect something far more detailed and constructive from her. Has (s)he has ever considered whether her own contribution to the training system is up to standard?
If the College or the system is so poor, how is it that all the experts who criticise it have managed to succeed? But then, we all know the definition of an expert!
2 S
"I wonder if (s)he's the right man for the job?" - Major H Grytpype-Thynne.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: hants
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2 sheds 1 braincell
Libellous? I really doubt wether my comments were either that or rantings as you suggest. As to my 'alleged' qualifications ; I can assure you they are both genuine and hard earned over many years. If you were to read some of my other comments you would be aware that I am only too ready to accept that there are failings throughout the training system. However we are specifically discussing CATC. You are correct to state that we are all products of the college but I must wonder how many people get through despite the training rather than because of it. When you start to look at each instructor and his/her current experience in busy,complex airspace then you MUST query their ability to pass on and teach modern techniques. I have no wish to conduct a witch hunt of individuals at the college but it is in the interest of all operational controllers to get training correct and that process must start at the college. The immediately agressive responses from college staff to my postings only indicates to me that they are aware of the shortcomings of the college and aren't used to having their competency questioned (an annual occurence at operational units).
They would also appear to be unable to have meaningful adult discussions without resorting to childish abuse.
They would also appear to be unable to have meaningful adult discussions without resorting to childish abuse.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Poole
Age: 76
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bwatchbabe
If you took the trouble to check your facts before sounding off, you would know that all instructors have to pass annual competence checks in the classroom and their teaching skills on simulators. They must also pass annual competency checks in the hot seat on the simulators for every course they teach.
Like you, if they fail they are removed from that task immediately and given further training before being re-examined. If they fail again, they are subject to the same procedures as you are.
If you took the trouble to check your facts before sounding off, you would know that all instructors have to pass annual competence checks in the classroom and their teaching skills on simulators. They must also pass annual competency checks in the hot seat on the simulators for every course they teach.
Like you, if they fail they are removed from that task immediately and given further training before being re-examined. If they fail again, they are subject to the same procedures as you are.
Bwatchbabe
So sorry for any childish abuse. We must have misinterpreted...
"It really is time this establishment was given a thorough clear out and not used as a rest home for the infirm or incompetent. A lot of the problems that the units have with training can be traced directly back to the college and some extremely dated techniques being taught"
..... and the little witicism about 1 braincell.......
....as being constructive, factual comment.
And I think you would find that your comments in the first sentence are, in fact, libellous.
However, if you wish to be serious, why not be more specific about what outdated techniques are being taught? I am not quite sure how techniques, as such, become outdated. Are you sure that you are not confusing perfectly sound procedures with specific operational practices that one would only expect to be taught on the units?
More to the point, as Berny suggests, why not continue this on the Nats site.
So sorry for any childish abuse. We must have misinterpreted...
"It really is time this establishment was given a thorough clear out and not used as a rest home for the infirm or incompetent. A lot of the problems that the units have with training can be traced directly back to the college and some extremely dated techniques being taught"
..... and the little witicism about 1 braincell.......
....as being constructive, factual comment.
And I think you would find that your comments in the first sentence are, in fact, libellous.
However, if you wish to be serious, why not be more specific about what outdated techniques are being taught? I am not quite sure how techniques, as such, become outdated. Are you sure that you are not confusing perfectly sound procedures with specific operational practices that one would only expect to be taught on the units?
More to the point, as Berny suggests, why not continue this on the Nats site.