Irish controllers to take UK airspace
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Fallows
If you talk to your civil ATCO collegues you'll find that they are MORE than happy that the Bournemouth course is reduced for Ex-Mil with area (preferably LJAO) experience. The more bums on seats the better!!
The plan to utilise seasoned Ex-Mil is only on hold whilst they work out precisely what course they are going to introduce.
Military & civil controlling have considerable similarities, so I hardly think that there is presumption on anyone's part. Mutual respect if anything.
The plan to utilise seasoned Ex-Mil is only on hold whilst they work out precisely what course they are going to introduce.
Military & civil controlling have considerable similarities, so I hardly think that there is presumption on anyone's part. Mutual respect if anything.
Last edited by asdfgh; 3rd Nov 2002 at 05:46.
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What do you think
Hi NERC people
Just saw the cicular over in the emerald isle offering these positions in NERC. Whats it like? Whats the roster like? How do you guys feel about the PADDYS coming over? Is it expensive to live in the area? Is there a good social scene?
I could keep going with these questions but maybe I better go back to work. Would appreciate any answers or advise on the situation.
.........Confused ATCO
Just saw the cicular over in the emerald isle offering these positions in NERC. Whats it like? Whats the roster like? How do you guys feel about the PADDYS coming over? Is it expensive to live in the area? Is there a good social scene?
I could keep going with these questions but maybe I better go back to work. Would appreciate any answers or advise on the situation.
.........Confused ATCO
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I'm sorry but I cant really see what the problem is, if there will be more valid atco's at the end of the day. I personally wouldn't want to go to Swanick from Dublin unless we in Nats aren't the lowest paid atco's in Europe as we keep making out on these pages, as the most pressing case will be that of money, escpecially if they want to try and buy a house on the south coast!. IF they validate on our sectors they will be on the same pay scales as the rest of us unless the V.N's state anything different! What is the difference from this situation and Nats recruiting people for Swanick from the Mil, Scottish or Manchester?
Also is this any different from us wanting to go and work, say, in Canada or the U.S etc, etc
Rant over
Also is this any different from us wanting to go and work, say, in Canada or the U.S etc, etc
Rant over
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Need To Know
if you want to know - email me at [email protected]
and if you can - post a copy of the circular here. I for one am interested in how the job has been advertised to you!!
VL
and if you can - post a copy of the circular here. I for one am interested in how the job has been advertised to you!!
VL
With no offence to incoming controllers from Shannon, Sweden, London Mil or wherever, I'm assuming that it is NATS' intention to somehow "fast track" previously-qualified controllers through the validation process.
If Prospect is doing its job properly in representing the interests of those "normal" trainees currently holding at various places in the system, it cannot allow such queue-jumping to occur. These people already have to go through a training process over many years, never knowing until the last whether they actually have a long-term job, and any further delay is unacceptable, as well as counter-productive as it reduces their chances of ultimate success.
Perhaps somebody can tell us the Prospect position on the issue, as the news of a document circulating in Ireland means it is no longer a hypothetical discussion. If there is no policy in place yet, we should badger our reps to force a debate and decision on the issue.
If Prospect is doing its job properly in representing the interests of those "normal" trainees currently holding at various places in the system, it cannot allow such queue-jumping to occur. These people already have to go through a training process over many years, never knowing until the last whether they actually have a long-term job, and any further delay is unacceptable, as well as counter-productive as it reduces their chances of ultimate success.
Perhaps somebody can tell us the Prospect position on the issue, as the news of a document circulating in Ireland means it is no longer a hypothetical discussion. If there is no policy in place yet, we should badger our reps to force a debate and decision on the issue.
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What I've heard (unconfirmed ), is that area controllers only need apply. Conversion training, including OJT 9 months, then a two year stint.
Notices have been posted in the centres, but with no info just a contact number.
Notices have been posted in the centres, but with no info just a contact number.
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I for one will be more than happy to train Irish, Swedish or ex mil controllers that have done a shortened course at the college.
We at LACC must accept that we are not a breed apart from "normal controllers" and that although the traffic levels may be higher than these people are used to, they stand a far better chance of adapting to this than ab-initio trainees. PROVIDED that they are given equal standards of training and not just left to sink or swim as they "should be able to do the job".
I personally feel that it is a sad indictment of the training regime at LACC that we lose so many people that are posted in from other units. I say this as an OJTI and examiner.
We at LACC must accept that we are not a breed apart from "normal controllers" and that although the traffic levels may be higher than these people are used to, they stand a far better chance of adapting to this than ab-initio trainees. PROVIDED that they are given equal standards of training and not just left to sink or swim as they "should be able to do the job".
I personally feel that it is a sad indictment of the training regime at LACC that we lose so many people that are posted in from other units. I say this as an OJTI and examiner.
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The shortened course does not mean a 'lesser' controller. Those ex-mil will have to pass all the exams and reach all the same standards as those who complete the 'full' course.
This has all been agreed with SRG (ATSSD) and Prospect, so I'm reliably informed.
As to the training at LACC and leap frogging the ab initio ATCO T & D's etc. Well the best guess is that ex-mil should be able to shave 6 to 8 months off of the normal time to obtain a single validation. So if I were a manager, given the rather huge shortfall in trained staff, I know who I would place at the head of the queue to get a bum in a seat ASAP. As to the disadvantage to those others in the training system, well thats something that the managers will have to address.
But then we all know what NATS managers are like!!!
This has all been agreed with SRG (ATSSD) and Prospect, so I'm reliably informed.
As to the training at LACC and leap frogging the ab initio ATCO T & D's etc. Well the best guess is that ex-mil should be able to shave 6 to 8 months off of the normal time to obtain a single validation. So if I were a manager, given the rather huge shortfall in trained staff, I know who I would place at the head of the queue to get a bum in a seat ASAP. As to the disadvantage to those others in the training system, well thats something that the managers will have to address.
But then we all know what NATS managers are like!!!
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asdfgh
"...ex-mil (ATCOs) should be able to shave six to eight months off the normal time to gain a single validation."
History has not been kind to experianced ATCOs trying to validate (or re-validate) at LATCC and there is little reason to suppose the situation will be any different at LACC. I believe a good case can be made for "short courses" prior to posting to an operational unit but once there all trainees should be treated equally. That is , requiring the same level of performance during training rather than expecting one individual to out perform others. The only argument for queue jumping a senior ATCO over T&Ds is that he/she earns more and should be made to be productive as soon as possible.
The real authority on this topic would be an ex-mil or airfield ATCO who has gone through the current system to validate at LACC. Are there any out there and how much of the training that you did could be left out?
"...ex-mil (ATCOs) should be able to shave six to eight months off the normal time to gain a single validation."
History has not been kind to experianced ATCOs trying to validate (or re-validate) at LATCC and there is little reason to suppose the situation will be any different at LACC. I believe a good case can be made for "short courses" prior to posting to an operational unit but once there all trainees should be treated equally. That is , requiring the same level of performance during training rather than expecting one individual to out perform others. The only argument for queue jumping a senior ATCO over T&Ds is that he/she earns more and should be made to be productive as soon as possible.
The real authority on this topic would be an ex-mil or airfield ATCO who has gone through the current system to validate at LACC. Are there any out there and how much of the training that you did could be left out?
Beady Eye
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Arkady
You selectively mis-quoted and missed out the 'Best guess' bit. The time scale quoted was from Big Al himself. There are currently no ex-mil Area ATCO's in the LACC system, although there are a couple of ex-mil aerodrome (and an ex-LJAO at Hurn, although a baby will slow her entry to LACC). This 'fast-track' course is specifically for ex-mil who were LJAO controllers, therefore familiar with London airspace and indeed both candidates are familiar with the LACC HMI. It will indeed be interesting to see how quickly they validate (if they get that far).
At the risk of a 'flaming' I would point out that mil ATCO's are used to moving from unit to unit and are very flexible and adaptable of necessity. I believe that their civil cousins tend to stay put and have that mindset, so moving elsewhere is a 'big thing' and not 'usual'.
At the risk of a 'flaming' I would point out that mil ATCO's are used to moving from unit to unit and are very flexible and adaptable of necessity. I believe that their civil cousins tend to stay put and have that mindset, so moving elsewhere is a 'big thing' and not 'usual'.
LATCC roster etc
Hi all,
I have seen the notice and i was wondering if anyone can give me details of the roster thet is in use and what the annual leave amount is.
Regards
Confused ATCO
I have seen the notice and i was wondering if anyone can give me details of the roster thet is in use and what the annual leave amount is.
Regards
Confused ATCO
