Heli procedures at LGW
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Heli procedures at LGW
Can anyone shed any light on the reasoning behind current heli procedures at LGW? I understand the H aiming point was removed due WIP but following a visit recently, the arrangement now to use the runway seems farcical....
Landing, not too much bother, just cross N terminal, land 08 then vacate to the stand...but departure
Following 10mins engine running on the stand, a hovertaxy behind c15 airliners to the 08 threshold. There follows a wait of a further 22mins before lining up & departing 08. A request was made for an early left turn due north when only 1/3rd down the tarmac, overflying the stand vacated 32mins previously.....all with disbelieving vip pax who are 'in the industry' with a great knowledge of worldwide procedures.
It has been mentioned that this arrangement is the preferance to ensure ATCO's are fully focused on proceedings south of the tower....however, how safe & expeditious is it to have a non wheel equipped heli placed behind 15 jet aircraft both on the taxyway & runway? Any thoughts please?
Landing, not too much bother, just cross N terminal, land 08 then vacate to the stand...but departure
Following 10mins engine running on the stand, a hovertaxy behind c15 airliners to the 08 threshold. There follows a wait of a further 22mins before lining up & departing 08. A request was made for an early left turn due north when only 1/3rd down the tarmac, overflying the stand vacated 32mins previously.....all with disbelieving vip pax who are 'in the industry' with a great knowledge of worldwide procedures.
It has been mentioned that this arrangement is the preferance to ensure ATCO's are fully focused on proceedings south of the tower....however, how safe & expeditious is it to have a non wheel equipped heli placed behind 15 jet aircraft both on the taxyway & runway? Any thoughts please?
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Yup, the aiming point was relocated during work in progress, and at the same time, a safety survey was carried out regarding heli's touching down on the taxiway. That concluded that taxiway aiming points weren't safe, and for BAA to create an individual landing site wasn't 'commercially viable'.
ATC restrictions are such that you have to use the duty runway, and from a holding point that doesn't produce additional departure vortex restrictions (hence the hover taxi to 08R G1?). ACL have to issue you with a runway slot (via Interflight?) to be accepted into the system as LGW is a fully managed runway. This slot doesn't give you any priority and ATC have to be impartial and treat you as just another customer. Our main purpose is to produce maximum runway utilisation, and no offence, but heli's tend to slow down the operation.
What I tend to do is engineer a departure gap that has been extended by 2nm at most, get the heli on and away with an early turn (they're not restricted to NPR's) and then fire a jet off behind you. I prefer to be rid of you ASAP rather than worrying about you flipping over in the hover.
On that topic, we have no restrictions regarding you hover taxying behind jets or beside the runway, (jet blast/vortex) but are fully aware of the problems involved and safety implications.
Re-reading your post, if you were behind 15 IFR jets, and you were VFR, nothing personal, but 'VFR will not hinder IFR'; then I'm sorry to say that you were the lowest priority.
The bottom line is, and this has nothing to do with ATC, but BAA do not want heli's operating at LGW because they produce no revenue and take up too much runway time.
Hope this helps in some way, but feel free to ask any further questions.
Muppit
ATC restrictions are such that you have to use the duty runway, and from a holding point that doesn't produce additional departure vortex restrictions (hence the hover taxi to 08R G1?). ACL have to issue you with a runway slot (via Interflight?) to be accepted into the system as LGW is a fully managed runway. This slot doesn't give you any priority and ATC have to be impartial and treat you as just another customer. Our main purpose is to produce maximum runway utilisation, and no offence, but heli's tend to slow down the operation.
What I tend to do is engineer a departure gap that has been extended by 2nm at most, get the heli on and away with an early turn (they're not restricted to NPR's) and then fire a jet off behind you. I prefer to be rid of you ASAP rather than worrying about you flipping over in the hover.
On that topic, we have no restrictions regarding you hover taxying behind jets or beside the runway, (jet blast/vortex) but are fully aware of the problems involved and safety implications.
Re-reading your post, if you were behind 15 IFR jets, and you were VFR, nothing personal, but 'VFR will not hinder IFR'; then I'm sorry to say that you were the lowest priority.
The bottom line is, and this has nothing to do with ATC, but BAA do not want heli's operating at LGW because they produce no revenue and take up too much runway time.
Hope this helps in some way, but feel free to ask any further questions.
Muppit
Last edited by Muppit; 22nd Sep 2002 at 23:42.
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Muppit,
Thanks very much for your input. I presume you were on last week as your suppositions were correct and I appreciate assistance given by you and your colleagues within the constraints of the airport.
I think you have hit the nail on the head with the comment about BAA not wanting helis at LGW which I suppose is to be expected in current times when the bottom line, rather than service, is the prime interest of corporations. However, helis do produce revenue to BAA, albeit far less than a 747, but the type of customer requiring a heli pickup is one that you would have thought BAA would be keen to attract (as in this instance).
Interestingly, as you probably know, LHR procedures are somewhat different in that the aiming point and taxyway are used by us for arrivals/departures albeit behind any departing traffic on the runway which still causes significant delays on occasions.
Stansted also still has the aiming point and is a pleasantly simple airport to use...very wisely though, helis are kept a good distance from the runway!
So thanks again for your input..no doubt will speak soon.
Thanks very much for your input. I presume you were on last week as your suppositions were correct and I appreciate assistance given by you and your colleagues within the constraints of the airport.
I think you have hit the nail on the head with the comment about BAA not wanting helis at LGW which I suppose is to be expected in current times when the bottom line, rather than service, is the prime interest of corporations. However, helis do produce revenue to BAA, albeit far less than a 747, but the type of customer requiring a heli pickup is one that you would have thought BAA would be keen to attract (as in this instance).
Interestingly, as you probably know, LHR procedures are somewhat different in that the aiming point and taxyway are used by us for arrivals/departures albeit behind any departing traffic on the runway which still causes significant delays on occasions.
Stansted also still has the aiming point and is a pleasantly simple airport to use...very wisely though, helis are kept a good distance from the runway!
So thanks again for your input..no doubt will speak soon.
