ICAO ATC Duty limits Nov 2020 query.
Thread Starter
As I understood it both were to be included. States that had the resources to have an FRMS could use that process to over-ride the "duty limits" through a robust, approved and ICAO compliant FRMS as part of their SMS whereas States that didn't could simply adopt them as is ?
Up until that point (Nov 2020 I thought it was) States could choose to have their own duty limits but not after that point unless they had the FRMS in their system ?
Is this correct ? If so does anyone know what the max duty limits information is ?
Up until that point (Nov 2020 I thought it was) States could choose to have their own duty limits but not after that point unless they had the FRMS in their system ?
Is this correct ? If so does anyone know what the max duty limits information is ?
Yes, the ICAO provisions allow States to choose between FRMS or prescriptive limits but Annex 11 doesn't state what those limits should be. At least I'm fairly sure that it doesn't
Thread Starter
Thx yes I think you are correct ? Found some info in ICAO Doc 9966 version 2 of 2019 Section 4 and Appendix D are the ANSP prescriptive details. (Not sure what the Nov 2020 amendment list 50 to Annex 11 did or didn't change)
But yes it appears States can set their own limits ! So what is the point of all that one wonders ?
But yes it appears States can set their own limits ! So what is the point of all that one wonders ?
Last edited by 10JQKA; 21st Apr 2022 at 09:51.
Thread Starter
Thought I would bump this thread because from reading news on ATC around the world lately it seems that all ANSPs are finding it difficult to manage and keep open their airspace with available staff.
Are their any interesting opinions out there on how ANSP FRMSs are coping with rostering of ATCOs ?
Can an FRMS actually cope with a whole worforce doing max hrs every week ? How does it mitigate such a scenario ?
Or is it more a box ticking exercise to comply with regulators but never was intended to actually manage fatigue and deliver a work life balance of any quality for shift workers ?
Is it better for ATCs to trust an FRMS provided by the employer or is it preferable to have defined prescriptive limits in an employment agreement or contract ?
Are their any interesting opinions out there on how ANSP FRMSs are coping with rostering of ATCOs ?
Can an FRMS actually cope with a whole worforce doing max hrs every week ? How does it mitigate such a scenario ?
Or is it more a box ticking exercise to comply with regulators but never was intended to actually manage fatigue and deliver a work life balance of any quality for shift workers ?
Is it better for ATCs to trust an FRMS provided by the employer or is it preferable to have defined prescriptive limits in an employment agreement or contract ?
Thread Starter
Staffing issues is a common theme at the moment hence the info request on current rostering and FRMS practices.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/pol...-staffing-pay/
After Poland, France, Italy now Croatia may be on strike.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/pol...-staffing-pay/
After Poland, France, Italy now Croatia may be on strike.
Thread Starter
Thought I'd bump this to see if there are any interesting variations of rostering/frms around the traps. And how are places doing with complying with ICAO duty limits regs for ANSPs.
Thread Starter
Another bump given the April 2024 FAA ATC Fatigue report and its recommendations to changes in 90 days, which is also posted in this forum and the rumours and news one.
How is the FAA ATC FRMS complying with the Nov 2020 ICAO mandate on ANSP ATC DUTY hours/FRMS limits ?
On which planet woul ICAO allow an ANSP to use mandatory OT !?
How is that ever possible under ANY approved FRMS.
How is the FAA ATC FRMS complying with the Nov 2020 ICAO mandate on ANSP ATC DUTY hours/FRMS limits ?
On which planet woul ICAO allow an ANSP to use mandatory OT !?
How is that ever possible under ANY approved FRMS.
