Surveillance Radar Approach - is this still available at any civil UK airfield ?

[eastern wiseguy]

Originally Posted by Double Hydco

Did a very nice one, on a very windy day, into Aldergrove before the pandemic.....

We did heaps of them for the resident squadrons. Also, we had to do one for validation with a fixed-wing aircraft. A few years ago though.

[ATCO Two]

I still remember JC's SRA "phraseology" at Heathrow. "Range 2 miles, I cannot assist you further, turn right 90 degrees and transmit for DF."

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by sheepless

SCATSA, many years ago, usual Shetland day with a gentle breeze. Carrying out an SRA for the local Islander. Aircraft got to 4 miles and stopped - after repeating the range height etc a couple of times I asked if he was going to stay there all day. Said he would move on shortly but was watching my wife, on the roof of our house, trying to catch a sheet that had departed the washing line.

Came in one morning at Sumburgh, wind calm. During the night, Cyril (Loftus) had opened up for a Loganair Islander. Wind was about 320/50kt so the pilot elected for a 'straight in' over Sumburgh Head rather than being blown towards the hill if he followed the sodiums.
Took him ages; he said even showing 95kt on the clock, the runway was still going away from him!!

[Tinstaafl]

More than once when I flew in Shetland I've had 100kt winds at 1000'.

[ShyTorque]

When I was training for my U.K. helicopter IR there was little or no wind. On the day of the test things got delayed by eight hours for operational reasons and it was dark when we took off. By then a deep low was approaching and by the time I got to the NDB to enter a hold the 2,000’ wind was over 60kts and increasing. For a jet that wouldn’t have been a big problem but for a helicopter with an IAS of 120 kts that called for some very large drift corrections.

The examiner then decided he wanted to simulate an engine failure during positioning for the ILS approach. Due to the weight we were at (3 POB), operating the “training mode” switch for the OEI resulted in an IAS of less than 100 kts and due to the increasing wind velocity, an approach ground speed of just 17 kts! Trying to fly an accurate ILS at that speed in turbulence was “interesting”. Going around OEI would have been backwards…..

We had to abandon the sortie, refuel and wait for the wind to die down. That was one very long day!

Interesting to hear how a controller giving an SRA would have dealt with that approach situation.

[radarman]

Radars Suitable for SRA's

I seem to remember In the dim and distant past of the early '70s the military Type 82 area radar was used for SRA's (well, a couple anyway). Not sure of the details, or indeed the veracity, but the story I heard was of a crap day at RAF Waddington, ILS unusable and AR1 radar out of service following a fire. Two or three Vulcans preparing to divert as weather well below minima and no approach aids. Suddenly one of them appears out of the mist and lands. Squadron commander makes enquiries to ATC and is told that Midland Radar "talked them down". Shortly afterwards a second one lands. Squadron commander phones Midland Radar supervisor to express his thanks, saying he didn't know Midland could do SRA's. MR supervisor denies all knowledge as the T82 is a long range (140nm) area radar unsuited and uncalibrated for such tasks. Curious, he goes down to the Waddington CAC console and is horrified to see the controller vectoring a third Vulcan down a hastily drawn chinagraph line in a well-meaning attempt to save Bomber Command the embarrassment of diversions. Controller rapidly relieved from duty and marched into the office for interview without tea or biscuits.
Lovely old chap JC, but somewhat eccentric. A keen horseman, and I believe used to run the village Post Office. Last saw him at RAF Porters Way about '74 driving a bright orange MG Midget.

[chevvron]

I remember a notice saying 'The Midland Radar Overhead Starts Here'; it was at Port Stanley.
But seriously, the T82 radar itself was 'gated' to cut out PEs because it was not equipped with MTI and totally unsuited for close in SRAs because it was originally designed as an Air Defence radar, especially as it had a slow rotation rate about of 8.3 rpm so its 'refresh rate' between sweeps must have been frightening.
Note I'm not saying it couldn't have been done; just that there must have been other radars available (eg Scampton, Cranwell, Wittering) which would provide a much more successful service but then any controller with a bit of initiative would attempt to help in an emergency.
I'm not sure if Waddington even had an ILS in those days ('70s) but it would almost certainly have had a PAR and an enterprising controller at Midland could easily have drawn a chinagraph line then vectored the inbound aircraft towards that line so that it could be picked up by the Waddington PAR and the Talkdown controller could have completed the approach