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How close can you vector an aircraft to an airspace boundary?

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How close can you vector an aircraft to an airspace boundary?

Old 1st Dec 2020, 13:06
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How close can you vector an aircraft to an airspace boundary?

Quck question for the controllers out there, Assuming you are in controlled airspace and recieving radar vectors, how close can you as a controller vector an aircraft to the boundary of that airspace? Is there a figure and where can I find it? Thank you
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Old 1st Dec 2020, 14:39
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Hi,

Not sure if that is what youre searching for but the rule I know is the following:

Aircraft must not be vectored closer than a half of the separation minimum (i.e. closer than 2.5 NM if the separation minimum is 5 NM) from the limit of the airspace which the controller is responsible for, unless otherwise specified in local arrangements. [SOURCE]

Maybe someone else can add the exact doc or corrections.

BRGDS
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Old 1st Dec 2020, 14:42
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PANS-ATM 8.6.5.1
c) except when transfer of control is to be effected, aircraft shall not be vectored closer than 4.6 km (2.5 NM) or,
where the minimum permissible separation is greater than 9.3 km (5 NM), a distance equivalent to one-half of
the prescribed separation minimum, from the limit of the airspace for which the controller is responsible, unless
local arrangements have been made to ensure that separation will exist with aircraft operating in adjoining areas;

though the UK specifies (MATS Pt 1)...
controllers should aim to keep the aircraft under their control at least two miles within the boundary.

2 s

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Old 1st Dec 2020, 16:31
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Can you give me the ref in MATS pt 1 please?
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Old 1st Dec 2020, 16:36
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I imagine it is this; CAP493, S4Ch6.2.2:

Vectoring responsibilities are detailed in Section 1, Chapter 6. Controllers should be aware of the potential for conflictions with aircraft in TRAs adjacent to the boundaries of their airspace, particularly if circumstances have made it necessary to vector an aircraft to be less than 2 miles from the boundary. In such circumstances, consideration should be given to co-ordinating with the appropriate controlling agency. When this cannot be achieved, aircraft should be vectored to be at least 2 miles from the boundary.
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Old 1st Dec 2020, 17:03
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You imagine wrongly, OhNoCB. That was a direct quote, not my paraphrase.

Sec 1, Ch 6, para 13, Cap'n!

2 s
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Old 1st Dec 2020, 18:30
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It can also depend on local letters of agreement. In our case its anything between 0 and 5NM. Usually its half of the required radar separation, mostly 1,5NM below FL245. But then, you we regularly cross the lines as well, it just needs some quick coordination, no big deal.
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Old 1st Dec 2020, 19:17
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I would infer that the OP was referring to CAS v Class G.

2 s
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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 09:36
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Correct 2 sheds
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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 12:59
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We have it defined locally, none, half or whole separation depending on type of boundary.

But generally, in CTR and TMA we can vector to the boundary, outside in uncontrolled "navigational assistance" can be provided so there is 5nm separation to said areas.
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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 15:35
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So, vectoring in class D which is against E or G?
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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 22:58
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jmm - for clarity, could you define "we"?

2 s
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Old 3rd Dec 2020, 11:21
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Originally Posted by 2 sheds View Post
jmm - for clarity, could you define "we"?

2 s
Greenland and Denmark.

And to answer captainsoldfront, the uncontrolled outside is class G. If there's controlled airspace on the other side, it will be described in a "Letter of Agreement" between said units.
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