Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Ground & Other Ops Forums > ATC Issues
Reload this Page >

UK IFR outside Controlled Airspace routing anomaly

ATC Issues A place where pilots may enter the 'lions den' that is Air Traffic Control in complete safety and find out the answers to all those obscure topics which you always wanted to know the answer to but were afraid to ask.

UK IFR outside Controlled Airspace routing anomaly

Old 22nd Jul 2020, 12:57
  #1 (permalink)  
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: MAN. UK.
Posts: 2,770
UK IFR outside Controlled Airspace routing anomaly

As an IR rated owner of a P28A based at Chester I often want to leave controlled airspace and then rejoin it further down route. Apart from the time advantage it keeps me out of the way of CAT in terminal areas. However on three occasions now I've noticed an anomaly that is proving an inconvenience for the controllers and increased workload for me.

Namely it seems that despite me filing a route that is accepted by the system and having an ACK message without manual change I find that ATC are expecting me to remain in controlled airspace at all times and that on 'the strip' the routing has defaulted to the 'Standard Route Document' (SRD) shown in the AIP. Examples this week were a trip from Chester to Perth. My route was to leave via the WAL4 and then leave CA to the north routing towards DCS. Rejoin towards TLA and then follow the SRD as TLA-EDN-EGPT (Well actually Dundee but I did phone Edinburgh ATC and asked to cheat). What actually happened was that after WAL I got vectored to POL and only on questioning it did it come to light that what the controller had in front of him was the standard route and nothing like what was filed.

The same occurred on the way back. I filed according to the SRD outbound PTH-GRICE-FENIK-DCS with the intention to leave and head south to WAL only to find that the controller was looking at DCS-LAKEY-CROFT no doubt to join the STAR into LPL and onwards to KEGUN.

Last year I really had to scratch my head when filing IFR completely outside CA from Turweston to Chester when the FISO came up with a clearance from London that routed me SAPCO-NANTI-KEGUN at FL080! I enjoyed the flight but it was actually longer than planned and wasn't even requested.

I'm under the impression that you cannot file IFR outside controlled airspace on the continent but I thought you could in the UK. Is the problem occuring because Brussels are defaulting to the rules of SERA and not the ANO?

Thanks for any help.
Confused of Cheshire....
BoeingBoy is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2020, 13:21
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Home away from home
Posts: 562
To my knowledge nothing in SERA prohibits IFR outside of CAS, so I wouldn’t think that’s the issue here.
Crazy Voyager is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2020, 13:42
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Down South
Posts: 295
Bear in mind this is coming from an ATCO, and not someone who has any expertise in filing plans etc.

It might well be that your route wasn't properly accepted somewhere by the system and one of the flight plan specialists has had to amend it manually. We see a lot of strips with a standard route on that has a different route in the remarks that differs hugely from what it is on the plan we have. It usually shows up when someone files direct point to point routes and the route has to be changed to something the system will actually accept.

Like I said, someone who is more adept than me in flight planning may well be along with a better answer, but I think that might be what's happening
The Many Tentacles is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2020, 13:49
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: River Thames & Surrey
Age: 73
Posts: 9,141
Brussels simply don't know the system over here, we get the same 'down south' when departing Fairoaks to route via DVR to Antwerp; Brussels re-route via GWC - SFD adding abpout 15 min to the flight instead of the direct routing via DET the pilot requests in Class G.
Try filing 'Y' and 'Z' plans joining at DCS northbound and leaving at DCS southbound; I presume you worked Warton Radar for the bit in Class G.
chevvron is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2020, 14:37
  #5 (permalink)  
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: MAN. UK.
Posts: 2,770
Yes. Warton were active north bound but Scottish said they were closed yesterday so we just got a basic from London Flight Information and freecalled LPL for zone transit to Chester.

I'm not getting any email or message saying that the plan is being manually adjusted. I file using EuroFPL and check the routes for compatibility prior to activating them and make sure I've received the ACK message prior to walking out to the aircraft. The problem seems to be that the computer overrides the point to points with the SRD routing.

In future once I check in I'll confirm what the controller is seeing compared to what was filed.
BoeingBoy is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2020, 12:02
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Way north
Age: 45
Posts: 498
Agree, just ask the controller. It could be a strip technicality that is printed and cannot be changed by the system, or a request like that is not displayed.

I'm pretty sure most controllers wouldn't mind you leaving "their" airspace though, one less to handle. Someone comming in from uncontrolled may require a bit more work though, since there can be a lack of coordination of the flight from other units, traffic flow may be in the way/establishment of separation, provision of clearance, identification of fligth, new plan on approach sequence. Nothing that should disturb an experienced controller though.

But there's nothing in Europe to my knowledge that prohibits IFR in class F or G?
jmmoric is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.