Gatwick ATCOs

[davys747]

Hi there,

If possible, could somebody that is currently working for ANS at Gatwick please send me a PM? I'd like to ask a few questions re: salary, leave and lifestyle etc.

Thank you very much.

[escaped.atco]

I'm hearing on the grapevine that there is a very low validation rate at EGKK at the moment. The rumour is that there is an old guard of ATCOs which seems determined to not make the contract work, simply achieved by not deeming anyone good enough to get through the training system. If the contract fails or does not prove to be cost effective the thoughts are that NATS will once again ride to the rescue and get those nasty ANS people thrown out.

The question is would NATS come back as NATS or that other Solutions brand..... Good luck if its the latter and be careful what you wish for!

[Dan Dare]

I think you’re being quite unfair to the KK ATCOs in situ escaped.atco. Few NATS employees past or present are so fond of them they would suffer years of understaffing and constant training for the sake of a possible return. Gatwick is eye-wateringly short of ATCOs and the pressure must be horrible both for the trainees and the OJTIs. NATS would have no magic wand now to sort out staffing except maybe paying to get experienced controllers into training seats. It’s disappointing that the regulator, airport and ANSPs have allowed things to get in to this state, but I can’t believe the finger of blame should point anywhere near the ATCOs.

[escaped.atco]

Like I say that's what I have heard on the grapevine, I don't know the staffing levels at EGKK at present - how short are they? How many are they trying to recruit? How many have validated in the last few years? All I know is if I were in a position to be thinking about EGKK and I had heard that there was an unexplained high failure rate then I would have to seriously consider whether I wanted to work in those circumstances. If the failure rate is higher than it previously was then there should be questions asked - namely why? Are the recruits suitable? Is the instruction poor? Is the assessment process unrealistic? It is unimaginable that it was all ticking over with NATS at the helm but yet with the same staff it has went to the dogs with a different ANSP.

The regulator is short staffed as well from what I can see. The airport has signed a contract with a new company to provide ATC services - no doubt there'll be penalty clauses in the contract somewhere to cover all sorts of eventualities, the airport has paid the ANSP to worry about staffing levels and recruitment/retention. I believe there are large financial incentives for the controllers at EGPH to stay with the company, surely the same will apply at EGKK.

[atc99]

Originally Posted by escaped.atco

I believe there are large financial incentives for the controllers at EGPH to stay with the company, surely the same will apply at EGKK.

I think you may have got those units the wrong way round.

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by escaped.atco

The rumour is that there is an old guard of ATCOs which seems determined to not make the contract work, simply achieved by not deeming anyone good enough to get through the training system.

Not new; we had at least 3 from Farnborough who transferred to Gatwick and then came back, all saying there were one or two individuals who seemed to be determined they wouldn't validate.
But we also had another 3 who did validate there.

[lemonhead]

Originally Posted by escaped.atco

The rumour is that there is an old guard of ATCOs which seems determined to not make the contract work, simply achieved by not deeming anyone good enough to get through the training system. If the contract fails or does not prove to be cost effective the thoughts are that NATS will once again ride to the rescue and get those nasty ANS people thrown out.

This might have been the case when there were NATS secondees around, but this is not something that I think is currently happening. All the OJTIs I have met have come across as very supportive to the trainees.

Originally Posted by escaped.atco

If the failure rate is higher than it previously was then there should be questions asked - namely why? Are the recruits suitable? Is the instruction poor? Is the assessment process unrealistic? It is unimaginable that it was all ticking over with NATS at the helm but yet with the same staff it has went to the dogs with a different ANSP.

In my opinion ANS did not have the right expertise available to correctly recruit and succefully train at an airport with the complexity and workload of ATC at Gatwick. A majority of ANS-management came from outside of air traffic and underestimated the skill level required. The past year they have made a lot of changes in this area, but it will take a while before the results of that will become apparent. NATS also had the advantage of being able to select trainees from the college for Heathrow and Gatwick, where ANS does most of the selection during initial recruitment, which is much less reliable.

Originally Posted by escaped.atco

The regulator is short staffed as well from what I can see

I don't understand why the contract transfer from NATS to ANS was allowed to continue when it became apparent how many ATCOs were choosing to stay with NATS and go elsewhere. ANS was not going to be able to catch up on that. The UK is one of the few countries that has chosen for a competitve market for terminal air traffic control and I think the detrimental effects of that on quality of service and working conditions are very apparent, not just at Gatwick.

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by lemonhead

The UK is one of the few countries that has chosen for a competitve market for terminal air traffic control and I think the detrimental effects of that on quality of service and working conditions are very apparent, not just at Gatwick.

The Gatwick contract is tower only and doesn't include terminal control; that is still done by NATS from Swanwick.
Even the USA has some private companies (eg Barton ATC Inc which is owned by Serco) which supply non FAA employed controllers for tower only contracts.