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Pay discrimination in ATC

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Pay discrimination in ATC

Old 21st Mar 2019, 20:41
  #21 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by Paul Wilson View Post
Bluewolf,
That is the problem then, and where you should be focusing your efforts. My field does have people in the same job for years and it is a failure of the organisations that I supply to recruit permanently that leads to it.
Have you considered lobbying for increased training numbers from the local system?
Or organising locally and bidding for the contract yourselves?
​​You will probably still need contractors for a time whilst you get the numbers through a training system, but once you have the numbers through you could bid much lower than any external company.

​​​​​​It is hard when the government seems blind to the issue. Especially when the solution is easy, but just takes a long time! In my field and country I can to some extent understand it, it takes 15 years of training to get our staff qualified, and there are elections every 5 years, so anything the current government does will only benefit the opposition.

You would have thought that under the system of government in Bahrain, at least taking a long term view would be one of the advantages, but it seems not in this case.
Paul Wilson the solution is easy and actually it does not take a long time. To train a brand new air traffic controller and get them fully qualified to work takes a year to a year and a half in most countries in the world. The system in here intentionally stalls the training and courses of new local employees and keep them working as assistants in ATC for 4 to 5 years before training them for air traffic controllers, because they do not care to invest in them and teach them and provide them with the knowledge for this job. The system in Bahrain has this mandate to bring experience foreigners and employ them for very high salaries, not to invest in the local young brains that are willing to give it all to serve their country.
bluewolf_85 is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2019, 22:32
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
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To train a brand new air traffic controller and get them fully qualified to work takes a year to a year and a half in most countries in the world.
I'm afraid the idea that you can take someone off the street and have them fully qualified - whatever you mean by that - at a major airport in a year and a half is worrying. It is akin to believing that after 200hrs experience a pilot is fully competent to fly a public-transport aircraft as first officer, and in that situation said first officer is closely monitored, and supposedly mentored, by an experienced captain; controller, when properly licensed and rated, usually works with far less supervision. Arguably the system you describe in Bahrain is likely to produce far better experienced controllers in the long run, and to weed out those who are not well suited to the job or simply don't enjoy it.

Perhaps I am now showing my age but I cannot believe that the present training schemes operated in some countries is turning out controllers who are well prepared and competent to handle some of the challenging things that the job can throw at you - but of course, the routine, day-to-day things are not difficult to master, or at least to do. The big question is whether the industry wants and is prepared to pay for competent and experienced people in what can be key positions. Perhaps your government has been taken in by some of the industry hype which says in another 20 years controllers will just be monitoring what the computers are telling the aircraft to do and so don't see a need to train up controllers and are choosing to fill the gap until the technology makes the job redundant with contract staff. On the face of it, this would be appear a perfectly sensible decision.
LookingForAJob is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2019, 22:42
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oz
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Does Bahrain recruit local female trainees for ATC? Are they paid the same as males? Discrimination can take many forms.
topdrop is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 10:45
  #24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LookingForAJob View Post
I'm afraid the idea that you can take someone off the street and have them fully qualified - whatever you mean by that - at a major airport in a year and a half is worrying.
Dude, I am sorry to disappoint you but this is normally how long it takes to train an air traffic controller all the way from scratch to being qualified to do the job by themselves. In most parts of the world it is like that. With NATS in the UK it is like that which is perfect to qualify good air traffic controllers. nats.aero states that:
"The basic course lasts around two months, at which point you’ll be told whether you’re following the path of an Area Controller or an Aerodrome/Approach Controller. (This decision will be related to your particular aptitude and the business requirements at the time.) Area students continue for another nine months, Aerodrome students for five months and Aerodrome/Approach students for eight. These are minimum timescales and the process can sometimes take longer if the business requires it or you need to repeat an element of the course." So at a very maximum, a trainee will be qualified to work this job in two years.
Training for air traffic control is different than training for a pilot. Not to say that the pilot job is more difficult or vice versa, but it is just the nature of these jobs are different, so the training timescale and the training methods differ between the two.
And no the purpose of system in Bahrain is not to produce far better experienced controllers in the long run, nor it is done because technology will take over the business in the future. It is done deliberately to stall and underpay local air traffic controllers for political reasons. In a logical sense, how would you produce better experienced local controllers in the long run if you stall an ATC prospect for 5 or 6 years until they are qualified to do this job. If anything this will decrease the motivation for those young guys to become more interested in this job and eventually repel them away from it as they are not earning any knowledge and taking too long to blossom into air traffic controllers.
bluewolf_85 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 16:01
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
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From an Area perspective, it may be 11/12 months (as it is currently) but that's to achieve your Student license. Then you go to your unit and do OJT to earn your validations which will take another 12-18 months, something that's not noted particularly clearly on the NATS Careers site.

As a trainee controller 1 month into his Basic course at the moment, I don't expect to be "going it alone" for at least another 2 years at a minimum...
Trevor Hannant is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 21:52
  #26 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by topdrop View Post
Does Bahrain recruit local female trainees for ATC? Are they paid the same as males? Discrimination can take many forms.
Yes they do recruit local female trainees in ATC, and the local male and female controllers are underpaid, and the foreign male and female controllers are very overpaid in Bahrain. So it is a local vs. foreign thing in here not a male vs. female thing.
bluewolf_85 is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2019, 22:06
  #27 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Apr 2017
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Originally Posted by Trevor Hannant View Post
From an Area perspective, it may be 11/12 months (as it is currently) but that's to achieve your Student license. Then you go to your unit and do OJT to earn your validations which will take another 12-18 months, something that's not noted particularly clearly on the NATS Careers site.

As a trainee controller 1 month into his Basic course at the moment, I don't expect to be "going it alone" for at least another 2 years at a minimum...
Okay Trevor still 2 or 2 and half years is much less than 4 and half or 5 years to become a qualified controller. I wish the system in here would be considerate and teach people and provide them with the knowledge and training so they will be qualified for work in 2 years. You only learn this job if you train for it and actually do it. If you just sit on the bench for 4 or 5 years not training for this job you are not going to learn anything, so it is a waste of time and experience.
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