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Wake Turbulence Separation between VFR & IFR

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Wake Turbulence Separation between VFR & IFR

Old 28th Jan 2018, 16:40
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Wake Turbulence Separation between VFR & IFR

Is there a wake turbulence separation between a flying heavy VFR aircraft and a following medium IFR aircraft let us say in airspace class D? (where there is no standard separation between them just traffic information).
bluewolf_85 is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2018, 03:43
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IFR aircraft have to be separated from wake turbulence.
It doesn't matter the flight rules of the aircraft generating the wake, if the following aircraft is IFR, a wake turbulence standard of some sort needs to be in place.
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Old 29th Jan 2018, 11:01
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It doesn't matter what flight rules the aircraft is flying under, wake turbulence separation is required at all times, either by informing the pilot or the ATCO providing the separation.
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Old 30th Jan 2018, 07:16
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Originally Posted by terrain safe View Post
It doesn't matter what flight rules the aircraft is flying under, wake turbulence separation is required at all times, either by informing the pilot or the ATCO providing the separation.
Not required for VFR (following) under ICAO rules with some exceptions.
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Old 30th Jan 2018, 21:15
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Originally Posted by Pera View Post
Not required for VFR (following) under ICAO rules with some exceptions.
Could you point me towards that document reference please.
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Old 31st Jan 2018, 06:10
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CAP493 section 1 chapter 3 paragraph 9B3

When a flight is operating visually (i.e. IFR or SVFR operating under the reduced separation in the vicinity of aerodromes, VFR, or IFR making a visual approach) and is following or crossing behind another aircraft, the pilot is to be informed of the recommended wake turbulence separation minima
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Old 31st Jan 2018, 17:01
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Originally Posted by sambatc View Post
CAP493 section 1 chapter 3 paragraph 9B3

When a flight is operating visually (i.e. IFR or SVFR operating under the reduced separation in the vicinity of aerodromes, VFR, or IFR making a visual approach) and is following or crossing behind another aircraft, the pilot is to be informed of the recommended wake turbulence separation minima
Thank you, that's the UK version I'm familiar with, however I would expect Bahrain to be either using a local version, or direct from ICAO 4444, so curious to see that.
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Old 31st Jan 2018, 17:39
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Originally Posted by terrain safe View Post
It doesn't matter what flight rules the aircraft is flying under, wake turbulence separation is required at all times, either by informing the pilot or the ATCO providing the separation.
It is not separation with vfr.

The phraseology is 'caution wake turbulence, recommended spacing is xxnm'.

The controller is neither providing or guaranteeing that distance, it is up to the pilot to assess how much spacing is needed. Further more the distance is recommended, not mandatory so the pilot may choose to fly closer or further behind.

Going back to the OP, there is no separation provided between IFR and VFR flights in Class D airspace. The use of the word 'following' here is misleading. If you are talking about an approach scenario then wake turbulence separation would be required regardless of flight rules. If you are talking more generally then it would be very hard to guarantee a certain distance behind a VFR aircraft that would not be flying vectors etc. Its not something I have ever seen but the IFR traffic would expect WT separation.
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Old 2nd Feb 2018, 21:24
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Originally Posted by alfaman View Post
Could you point me towards that document reference please.
Not easily. I know we don't provide wake turb sep for VFR in any class of airspace and we wouldn't introduce it if it wasn't ICAO. We have some crazy rules that can't be changed because 'its ICAO'.
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Old 2nd Feb 2018, 23:15
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In Oz an IFR aircraft following a VFR aircraft is provided with the appropriate wake turbulence standard.
Regularly get VFR Chinook (Heavy cat when lead aircraft), the following IFR aircraft are wake turb separated or use of one of the get out of jail clauses (e.g. sight and follow, caution wake turb)
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 19:18
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bluewolf 85, everyone has answered you assuming you mean that both aircraft are in sequence for arrival. I'm reading it with my area control hat where all I have to provide is 5nm or 3nm depending on what area you are in, which is standard area separation, there is no "vortex" requirement to consider.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 22:26
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In Oz, an IFR acft entering the wake turb envelope of a VFR HVY or MED acft requires wake turb separation - so crossing as well as following. The envelope is 760 metres (0.5NM) either side and same level to 999ft below.
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