ATC Issues A place where pilots may enter the 'lions den' that is Air Traffic Control in complete safety and find out the answers to all those obscure topics which you always wanted to know the answer to but were afraid to ask.

NATS tower loss

Old 25th Jun 2016, 18:53
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Age: 62
Posts: 2,171
Panny

Looking up Companies house...it seems a bit "you say potato...I say potato" I expect someone who works for them might be along to quench your thirst for knowledge.

I am surprised though that your "contacts" at EGAC can't help you out?
eastern wiseguy is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2016, 07:20
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: River Thames & Surrey
Age: 71
Posts: 8,572
Originally Posted by TCAS FAN View Post
Only way that NATS could compete with the real world to provide AFIS is to do it either at cost or a loss leader to get the Wallop contract.
That's possible I suppose. The contract may have been a package as Wallop is ADV/ADI and APP/APS which NSL could do. NSL as far as I'm aware do not have any AFIS contracts and the Area FISOs who do FIR are NERL not NSL.
chevvron is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2016, 15:44
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Up North
Age: 40
Posts: 27
Middle Wallop and Netheravon were acquired by Aquila - NATS (NSL?) as part of Project Marshall.

AQUILA - Air Traffic Management Services | About AQUILA
261_p is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2016, 16:26
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: South of England
Posts: 1,079
Let's hope their technical ability is better that their web designer putting white lettering on a white cloud background.


2 s
2 sheds is online now  
Old 7th Jul 2016, 18:20
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Harrow
Age: 58
Posts: 25
Lets's hope that NATS becomes a better company to work for!
EGLL19791986 is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2016, 21:34
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: behind the fruit
Posts: 233
Lets's hope that NATS becomes a better company to work for!
Let's hope that with more contracts being lost, it will become easier to go to work for other employers.
LEGAL TENDER is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2016, 17:42
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dorset
Posts: 137
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that all these contract losses and consequent wins by other ANSPs are all orchestrated by NATS themselves in an elaborate plan to get shot of as many people on the DB pension plan as they can.

Give it a decade or so and we'll all be back with NATS with a nice new DC pension and reduced T&Cs
BigDaddyBoxMeal is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2016, 08:16
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Talkdownman View Post
nats at Netheravon? Must be the only nats AFIS unit then. nats NS & L scraping the barrel somewhat for contracts?

AFIS at Netheravon? AFIS is meant for tiddler public transport. Public Transport at Netheravon? In my day as a lift attendant there all the passengers jumped out because they hated landing in aeroplanes.

The world has gone mad...
"Scraping the barrel" - nothing like an elitist statement, sure the hard working guys at these units appreciate that attitude, regardless of size or movements, each unit carries its own challenges and it's a job that I'm sure people still have pride in. Could say easy life at EGKK being tower only, just one rating part skilled ATCOS, so ANS scrapping the barrel, compared to say a unit that requires ADI, APS and APP, with a mix of traffic types and speeds.

Perhaps NATS losing contracts is as equally as much to do with the views of the airport management of "Some" NATS staffs arrogance with statements like that, especially when they compare the t&c to their own staff.
3miles is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2016, 08:17
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by LEGAL TENDER View Post
Let's hope that with more contracts being lost, it will become easier to go to work for other employers.
It is - Amazon are recruiting.
3miles is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2016, 21:11
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: LHR/EGLL
Age: 41
Posts: 4,325
3miles,

Hate to break it to you but TDM isn't a NATS ATCO.
Gonzo is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2016, 12:13
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: River Thames & Surrey
Age: 71
Posts: 8,572
Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
3miles,

Hate to break it to you but TDM isn't a NATS ATCO.
No, like me he's a retired NATS ATCO who got pi$$ed off with NATS HR.
chevvron is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2016, 21:42
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 75
Posts: 8,276
Yep.. and he was an ATCO for many more years than Gonzo!
HEATHROW DIRECTOR is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2016, 22:11
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: LHR/EGLL
Age: 41
Posts: 4,325
Errr, ok.

I was just pointing out that 3miles seemed to misunderstand TDM's language when he said 'scraping the barrel', and assumed he was 'NATS elitist', which couldn't be further from the trut in my experience.

Never mind.
Gonzo is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2016, 20:58
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Scotland
Posts: 16
Not surprised

I was at Brum when the local "expertise" bought out the contract, not nice. Know Edinburgh well, but it's Tower GM is a bit of a tool and his Engineering predecessor was an even bigger one, so no surprises the contract was lost because of the infighting ( and its serious infighting). Glasgow will most definitely follow, I'd rather hope that the shambles at HIAL will implode pretty quickly as a result.

My main beef : The people in charge of NATS and its subsidiaries, are not forward thinking in any sense of the phrase and are still entrenched in the outdated dogma of the DoT.

Paul Reid and the Germans, that's does make me smile, good on you Gazza.

F NATS !!
Spambhoy is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2016, 16:12
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1
NATS did not win Netherhaven. They were simply given the contract along with the others below. The MoD simply removed them from competitive bids and handed them to NATS without the taxpayer being able to check 'value for money' issues.


1. RAF Gibraltar (Serco then NATS)
2. AAC Wattisham Station (Serco then NATS)
3. RAF Wittering (Babcock)
4. RAF Barkston Heath (Babcock)
5. RAF Woodvale (Babcock)
6. AAC Netherhaven (Serco)
7. AAC Middle Wallop (Serco)
8 MoD St Athan (Serco)

When the above contracts come to the end of their current term they will simply be given to the winner of Project Marshall - Aquila / NATS - in a non-competitive award. These ATC staff contracts were never in the original Project, they were added after NATS won the Project.



Vulcan Lover is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2016, 18:59
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: T.C.
Age: 52
Posts: 232
I think NATS losing tower contracts is an interesting situation, the bosses are getting it wrong somewhere. The controllers are still doing the job they are paid to do, but for the airport owners are not happy with NATS as ATC providers.

That said, Gatwick could be a disaster yet if validations don't happen soon. The latest recruits are from Bournemouth and Oxford, I hope they do well, but it's a big ask. Are wages going to have to increase to attract ex gatwick or ex Heathrow tower validations, or Middle East expats I wonder. Watching with interest.
Nimmer is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2016, 20:23
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: jersey
Age: 70
Posts: 1,202
The cynic in me says that there will be no problem with Gatwick validations. All will be well - because that is what is needed, so that is what will happen !
kcockayne is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2016, 21:28
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: T.C.
Age: 52
Posts: 232
T250, 1 Middle East expat, 1 has already failed. Sorry if the Oxford info was wrong, do you know where others are being recruited from?
Nimmer is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2016, 10:01
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: River Thames & Surrey
Age: 71
Posts: 8,572
Gatwick is not an easy place to validate; we had at least 6 from Farnborough who went there and I believe only 2 managed to qualify. Certainly my personal feeling is someone from Oxford or Bournemouth would find it a bit of a struggle as the traffic is more IFR biased than the places they've come from ie very few VFR arrivals/departures at Gatwick.
For instance, in NATS days, I've been on the flight deck of a 737 landing on easterlies and at 4 miles with one lander ahead just vacating, they've still got 2 departures away before giving us landing clearance.
Do they do that nowadays?

Last edited by chevvron; 2nd Oct 2016 at 12:14.
chevvron is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2016, 12:05
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Up North
Posts: 177
Know Edinburgh well, but it's Tower GM is a bit of a tool and his Engineering predecessor was an even bigger one

They were/are both engineers but you have it the wrong way around!
Hootin an a roarin is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.