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correct phraseology for Going around vs discontinuing approach

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correct phraseology for Going around vs discontinuing approach

Old 22nd May 2016, 18:32
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correct phraseology for Going around vs discontinuing approach

There are instrument approach procedures whos missed approach altitude is lower than the FAF. If the controller wants you to execute the missed approach procedure while you are on approach , descending from the final approach fix toward the missed approach altitude ; what should the standard phraseology be ? '' Go around " or ''discontinue approach'' ?
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Old 22nd May 2016, 20:44
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Go around. "Discontinue approach" is not standard phraseology. A few months ago there was a thread on the phrase "continue approach." Using non standard "discontinue approach" could lead to confusion at a critical time.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 08:05
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Go around.
Follow the published procedure.

If the ATCO wants you to do anything other than the published procedure they will give you explicit instructions.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 09:01
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Interesting. If plane has commenced descent from FAF but has not yet reached the missed approach altitude (and, for whatever reason, the runway is blocked) I tend to say "stop descent at xxxx ft" plus the reason. This is because I don't want the pilot to hit TOGA button and sky-rocket upwards. If they hit TOGA button before the missed approach altitude when will they level off? Your guess is as good as mine! Anyone have experience of this? What will your aircraft do?
Below the missed approach altitude I say "go-around" every time.

(I use the same criteria to determine if the flight was a "missed approach" or a re-position.)
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Old 23rd May 2016, 09:29
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What? If you stop descent at some arbitrary point, the aircraft will go off profile which may not be re-established and not be able to land. The stop descent level may be below the minimum radar vectoring altitude. The MAP is in the FMS so there's no fear of rocketing skyward. Why not just go for "continue approach, runway occupied?" That's standard without any confusion.

You asked what happens if they hit TOGA before the MAPT, the aircraft climbs to the MAP altitude, overflys the MAPT then follows the missed approach track.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 11:38
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Originally Posted by fujii View Post
What? If you stop descent at some arbitrary point, the aircraft will go off profile which may not be re-established and not be able to land. The stop descent level may be below the minimum radar vectoring altitude. The MAP is in the FMS so there's no fear of rocketing skyward. Why not just go for "continue approach, runway occupied?" That's standard without any confusion.

You asked what happens if they hit TOGA before the MAPT, the aircraft climbs to the MAP altitude, overflys the MAPT then follows the missed approach track.
I think you're missing the point here. We're not talking about the missed approach point. We're talking about an aircraft passing the final approach fix, let's say 4000ft, and is commencing descent. The missed approach altitude (the altitude a missed approach climbs to on a "go-around") is lower, e.g. 2000ft. Let's assume the minimum vectoring altitude is also 2000ft.
The runway is blocked, the aerodrome controller knows it's not going to be clear in time for the approaching aircraft to land.
We're not talking about re-establishing the aircraft to land any time soon (the runway is blocked after all).

My point is what happens if the approaching aircraft hits TOGA button before it descends below 2000ft??
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Old 23rd May 2016, 12:03
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It informs ATC & the Controller gives it go around instructions (levels, headings etc.). Or, am I missing something ?
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Old 23rd May 2016, 12:16
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I don't think I am missing the point at all. The FAF is marked on the instrument plate as a cross at around 4 - 5 miles out, well after commencing descent. To be at 4000 at the FAF, you'd need an aerodrome elevation around 2500.
Perhaps you're thinking of the initial approach fix. Anyway, the FMS knows where the aircraft is and will fly it accordingly.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 12:28
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Originally Posted by fujii View Post
I don't think I am missing the point at all. The FAF is marked on the instrument plate as a cross at around 4 - 5 miles out, well after commencing descent. To be at 4000 at the FAF, you'd need an aerodrome elevation around 2500.
Perhaps you're thinking of the initial approach fix. Anyway, the FMS knows where the aircraft is and will fly it accordingly.
Respectfully, from experience, I've witnessed a number of aircraft (having been issued with "go-around" instruction whilst above the final altitude restriction on the missed approach procedure) climb like rockets and only stop their climb when questioned/instructed by ATC.

So your FMS may be clever enough to work it out (effectively continuing to descend to the final altitude on the missed approach procedure), but that certainly isn't what I've seen.

Ps Not all airfields are as you suggest above. Where I work is at sea level and the FAF (yes I know what it is!) is above the final altitude on the missed approach procedure (on one of the runways anyway!)
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Old 23rd May 2016, 12:38
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We are also drifting wide of the OP's question. Whether to say "go around" or "discontinue approach." To answer that, ICAO wins.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 12:56
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Yes. We should get back to that (I've been trying to!).

So, in the situation the OP stated, I think it's better to say stop descent at xxxx ft (probably the same altitude as the final altitude on the missed approach procedure) and provide the reason.

If the aircraft on approach is already below the final altitude on the missed approach procedure it's a no-brainier...."go around".

I certainly don't advocate introducing non-standard phrases such as "discontinue approach".
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Old 23rd May 2016, 18:11
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Agreed, "go around" are the words to use.... Wait a bit.... Cause you probably gave the crew a bit of work to do
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Old 23rd May 2016, 20:37
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But in this context...


It informs ATC & the Controller gives it go around instructions (levels, headings etc.). Or, am I missing something ?

...missed approach instructions...


2 s
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Old 23rd May 2016, 21:44
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Old 24th May 2016, 02:33
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In a former life, my phraseology would have been;

"Cancel approach clearance, (climb and) maintain xx thousand, fly heading xxx, vectors for......"

Worked over here.
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Old 24th May 2016, 03:38
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My point is what happens if the approaching aircraft hits TOGA button before it descends below 2000ft??
The tower controller presses a button that triggers a "go-around" alarm at the approach controller's suite, then the entire OPS room turns round and yells jeers and waheys. At least it did before MACC transitioned up to Scottish...
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