ATC 's Looking For Vacancies
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ATC 's Looking For Vacancies
It seems the recent industrial circus in Australia is the last straw for some. Anybody aware of vacancies at their outfits?
There are a couple for area radar here.
There are a couple for area radar here.
Sorry ferris GMTA.....
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Re: ATC 's Looking For Vacancies
Ferris,
If the FAA doesn't get its' head out of the sand soon the US will be in desperate need of Air Traffic Controllers. Over 50% of us will be eligeble to retire by 2005.
Mike
If the FAA doesn't get its' head out of the sand soon the US will be in desperate need of Air Traffic Controllers. Over 50% of us will be eligeble to retire by 2005.
Mike
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Mike,
Does that mean that the FAA might be looking at hiring licenced expats?
And if so, would they assist them in getting the green card and would NATCA support direct entries into (usually highly paid) centres?
PAC
Does that mean that the FAA might be looking at hiring licenced expats?
And if so, would they assist them in getting the green card and would NATCA support direct entries into (usually highly paid) centres?
PAC
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Green Card
Gents and Ladies, a quick point....
I am an Aussie doing conversion in Canada (Aussie citizen, eligible for British passport, Canadian resident/landed immigrant).
The FAA requires you to be an American citizen not a "landed immigrant" (green card holder). This is the problem with getting employment there, get residency but sit on your hands for 3 years in the hope of getting citizenship but you are not practicing your skills which effects your employability (a catch 22).
Nats, NavCanada, Skyguide (Swiss), Air Services Australia etc just require you to be "landed immigrants". So with the FAA in mind, having all your Enroute/Tower/Terminal skills means SFA with a US green card you'll just be talking to pilots at Starbucks as you serve them as a waiter.
If the situation changed I am sure that the lads down south will be inundated with applications....here's hoping!
I am an Aussie doing conversion in Canada (Aussie citizen, eligible for British passport, Canadian resident/landed immigrant).
The FAA requires you to be an American citizen not a "landed immigrant" (green card holder). This is the problem with getting employment there, get residency but sit on your hands for 3 years in the hope of getting citizenship but you are not practicing your skills which effects your employability (a catch 22).
Nats, NavCanada, Skyguide (Swiss), Air Services Australia etc just require you to be "landed immigrants". So with the FAA in mind, having all your Enroute/Tower/Terminal skills means SFA with a US green card you'll just be talking to pilots at Starbucks as you serve them as a waiter.
If the situation changed I am sure that the lads down south will be inundated with applications....here's hoping!
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Yeah don't hold your breath - the Goddams never were particularly good at relating to the real world beyond Florida, and with Dubya at the helm ...........
Sure the US needs valid ATCOs, I'd jump ship from the UK at the drop of a hat, but I ain't going through a pile fo crap to get there. You need us more than we need you. So word of advice to the FAA, if you 'free-marketeers' really belive in it, make us UK ATCOs a decent offer, and your staffing problems could be reduced by a few hundred.
Sure the US needs valid ATCOs, I'd jump ship from the UK at the drop of a hat, but I ain't going through a pile fo crap to get there. You need us more than we need you. So word of advice to the FAA, if you 'free-marketeers' really belive in it, make us UK ATCOs a decent offer, and your staffing problems could be reduced by a few hundred.
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Good ole Fruitbat,
The citizen issue with ATCOs in the US is common knowledge, nothing new.
My question re green card was concerning a possible hiring of expats in the future, abandoning the citizenship requirement (otherwise FAA couldn't hire any expats, could they?).
Besides, ASA requires you to be a permanent resident. And as we know, getting permanent residency in Oz can take a wee while.
Furthermore, Skyguide is not hiring expats anymore UFN. And those expats who are working there now didn't have to apply for permanent residency, they were sponsored by the company.
The citizen issue with ATCOs in the US is common knowledge, nothing new.
My question re green card was concerning a possible hiring of expats in the future, abandoning the citizenship requirement (otherwise FAA couldn't hire any expats, could they?).
Besides, ASA requires you to be a permanent resident. And as we know, getting permanent residency in Oz can take a wee while.
Furthermore, Skyguide is not hiring expats anymore UFN. And those expats who are working there now didn't have to apply for permanent residency, they were sponsored by the company.
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I think the 'age bulge' is universal. So is the 'head in the sand' approach being taken by managers everywhere. Combined with the way the traffic is growing...........
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I remember trying to understand the requirements for employment in the US a few years ago.
The FAA contact in London was a bit subtle for me and I just didn't understand how I could ever get in (on the citizenship stuff). In the end he got fed up with me and said 'look, go to a news stand, buy a New York Times, look in the classified ads and there you'll find some ads from ladies willing to help you'.
The FAA contact in London was a bit subtle for me and I just didn't understand how I could ever get in (on the citizenship stuff). In the end he got fed up with me and said 'look, go to a news stand, buy a New York Times, look in the classified ads and there you'll find some ads from ladies willing to help you'.
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I remember trying to understand the requirements for employment in the US a few years ago.
The FAA contact in London was a bit subtle for me and I just didn't understand how I could ever get in (on the citizenship stuff). In the end he got fed up with me and said 'look, go to a news stand, but a New York Times, look in the classified ads and there you'll find some ads from ladies willing to help you'.
The FAA contact in London was a bit subtle for me and I just didn't understand how I could ever get in (on the citizenship stuff). In the end he got fed up with me and said 'look, go to a news stand, but a New York Times, look in the classified ads and there you'll find some ads from ladies willing to help you'.
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Hi Y'all;
The FAA isn't going to change the citizenship requirement ( Unless of course we get privitized ). Some of the reasons being that of getting a security clearance. You have to remember that over here we work everyone, from civil to military and we work all the special mil ops as well as law enforcmenet ops. With that, everyone who works at an enroute centre must hold a secret clearance or better.
As to the age requirement, a lot of that comes from being able to have enough years to retire from the job. The way it is set up here, you must have 20 years on the boards ( control position ) and be age 50 to retire or have 25 years on the boards and then any age to retire. However, we are forced to retire at age 56 (there are a couple of exceptions, but you will not find many that can do it. )
Right now the Union has an agreement with the FAA that states, other than students from the MARCs school will enter the FAA as a controller at a lower level facility. The main reason that we have done this is to allow for the controllers at the lower facilities to have a chance to move up the busier and better paid facilities. In the past, the FAA would fill the openings at the moderately busy facilities with new hires since they didn't have to pay for the move. The new hire would have to pay for it. It's not a perfect system, but it was put into place to try to right an inequity.
If you have any other questions let me know... As to needing controllers. Yup, we need more, but the FAA isn't doing much in the way of hiring due to the lack of money right now. The agency had to pay out a LOT of money after 9-11 for security issues that were mandated by the politico's and weren't given any extra money to handle the costs. The rest is history. The agency is still trying to get additional funding from the congress, but as of this month, we are going to be completely out of overtime funds by the end of the month without a supplemental fund...
We are hoping to start doing some hiring next year, but we will see what the budget looks like. We are also expecting to lose one third of our work force in the next four to five years... That is going to be a lot of fun (NOT!)...
regards
The FAA isn't going to change the citizenship requirement ( Unless of course we get privitized ). Some of the reasons being that of getting a security clearance. You have to remember that over here we work everyone, from civil to military and we work all the special mil ops as well as law enforcmenet ops. With that, everyone who works at an enroute centre must hold a secret clearance or better.
As to the age requirement, a lot of that comes from being able to have enough years to retire from the job. The way it is set up here, you must have 20 years on the boards ( control position ) and be age 50 to retire or have 25 years on the boards and then any age to retire. However, we are forced to retire at age 56 (there are a couple of exceptions, but you will not find many that can do it. )
Right now the Union has an agreement with the FAA that states, other than students from the MARCs school will enter the FAA as a controller at a lower level facility. The main reason that we have done this is to allow for the controllers at the lower facilities to have a chance to move up the busier and better paid facilities. In the past, the FAA would fill the openings at the moderately busy facilities with new hires since they didn't have to pay for the move. The new hire would have to pay for it. It's not a perfect system, but it was put into place to try to right an inequity.
If you have any other questions let me know... As to needing controllers. Yup, we need more, but the FAA isn't doing much in the way of hiring due to the lack of money right now. The agency had to pay out a LOT of money after 9-11 for security issues that were mandated by the politico's and weren't given any extra money to handle the costs. The rest is history. The agency is still trying to get additional funding from the congress, but as of this month, we are going to be completely out of overtime funds by the end of the month without a supplemental fund...
We are hoping to start doing some hiring next year, but we will see what the budget looks like. We are also expecting to lose one third of our work force in the next four to five years... That is going to be a lot of fun (NOT!)...
regards
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Scott, Your reasons for needing the security clearance are valid, but equally valid where most of us currently work.
I suspect that this won't get anymore relaxed in the next few years... Then again it might with stuff like this, from a recent NATCA press release.
GAO REPORT BOLSTERS NATCA POSITION ON IMPENDING
CRITICAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER STAFFING SHORTAGE
WASHINGTON - The National Air Traffic Controllers Association reacted with
enthusiasm to a General Accounting Office report, released today, which
details what controllers nationwide already knew: Air traffic controller
staffing is reaching a desperate stage and is forecast to get worse.
"This report says it all," said John Carr, president of the controllers'
union. "We're going to lose one in every three controllers we have in the
next five years, and the Federal Aviation Administration's plans are
inadequate for making up for that shortfall."
The GAO report states that 5,000 controllers - exactly one-third of the
nations' total controller workforce - may leave by 2007, a figure the GAO
says is "more than two times higher than that for the past five years."
NATCA has pressed the FAA to address the shortfall, even taking the
unprecedented step of making the hiring goal one of its five promises to
House Appropriations Transportation Subcommittee Chairman Hal Rogers, R-Ky.,
during last summer's "Gang of Six" hearings held to address aviation delays.
Carr told Rogers he would ask for more controllers to deal with the
impending wave of controller retirements. Today, Carr remarked, "Consider
that one promise I'm keeping right now. I'm asking for massive air traffic
controller hiring to begin immediately."
NATCA and the FAA have a five-year agreement on staffing due to expire next
September, but Carr noted, "In light of the GAO report, I think it's prudent
to sit down and negotiate staffing numbers immediately." The report noted
that staffing at the busiest facilities could be impacted the worst, and
also said, "The FAA has not developed a comprehensive strategy to address
its impending controller needs."
Additionally, the report stated, "The FAA's hiring process does not take
into account the time necessary to train replacements." To which Carr
replied, "We've always said controllers are like runways - it takes three to
five years to make a good one. We need to hire a bubble of controllers that
will move our National Airspace System smoothly through the next decade
without the turbulence of short staffing and its numerous associated
problems."
The GAO report is available online at: www.gao.gov/new.items/d02591.pdf
Tacolote
I suspect that this won't get anymore relaxed in the next few years... Then again it might with stuff like this, from a recent NATCA press release.
GAO REPORT BOLSTERS NATCA POSITION ON IMPENDING
CRITICAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER STAFFING SHORTAGE
WASHINGTON - The National Air Traffic Controllers Association reacted with
enthusiasm to a General Accounting Office report, released today, which
details what controllers nationwide already knew: Air traffic controller
staffing is reaching a desperate stage and is forecast to get worse.
"This report says it all," said John Carr, president of the controllers'
union. "We're going to lose one in every three controllers we have in the
next five years, and the Federal Aviation Administration's plans are
inadequate for making up for that shortfall."
The GAO report states that 5,000 controllers - exactly one-third of the
nations' total controller workforce - may leave by 2007, a figure the GAO
says is "more than two times higher than that for the past five years."
NATCA has pressed the FAA to address the shortfall, even taking the
unprecedented step of making the hiring goal one of its five promises to
House Appropriations Transportation Subcommittee Chairman Hal Rogers, R-Ky.,
during last summer's "Gang of Six" hearings held to address aviation delays.
Carr told Rogers he would ask for more controllers to deal with the
impending wave of controller retirements. Today, Carr remarked, "Consider
that one promise I'm keeping right now. I'm asking for massive air traffic
controller hiring to begin immediately."
NATCA and the FAA have a five-year agreement on staffing due to expire next
September, but Carr noted, "In light of the GAO report, I think it's prudent
to sit down and negotiate staffing numbers immediately." The report noted
that staffing at the busiest facilities could be impacted the worst, and
also said, "The FAA has not developed a comprehensive strategy to address
its impending controller needs."
Additionally, the report stated, "The FAA's hiring process does not take
into account the time necessary to train replacements." To which Carr
replied, "We've always said controllers are like runways - it takes three to
five years to make a good one. We need to hire a bubble of controllers that
will move our National Airspace System smoothly through the next decade
without the turbulence of short staffing and its numerous associated
problems."
The GAO report is available online at: www.gao.gov/new.items/d02591.pdf
Tacolote
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Security
This security vs citizenship stuff simply doesn't cut it. I am an Australian citizen working in Canada, am a permanent resident NOT a citizen since I am not qualified, I haven't been here long enough. Yet I have the required security clearance (as I did dunnunda) to play the role that civil ATC does around the world in Air Defence, Mil ops, covert ops, police ops.
http://cbc.ca/news/features/g8/
The Aussies, Canucks, Germans, Swiss, Brits and Europeans states in general require their controllers to possess a security clearance, permanent residency but not necessarily citizenship. I am sure when the F111s went from Britain to bomb Libya in the 80s that the civ sectors new about them and I'll bet that LATCC didn't ban all those without a lion and unicorn on their passport from turning up to work.
In the information age where your photo, fingerprints and history since birth can flash around the worlds intelligence and police agencies and INTERPOL in a second, if you can't work out that someone is one of the "good guys" with good intentions/attitudes - your either extremely paranoid or your counter intelligence system should be reviewed.
If you keep your head in the sand long enough something will come along and bite you on the nose
I wonder why a mode of operation thats good enough for Europe, Australia and their northern (NORAD) neighbour doesn't wash with our tin pushing brethren in the 50 states? Any ideas/opinions?
http://cbc.ca/news/features/g8/
The Aussies, Canucks, Germans, Swiss, Brits and Europeans states in general require their controllers to possess a security clearance, permanent residency but not necessarily citizenship. I am sure when the F111s went from Britain to bomb Libya in the 80s that the civ sectors new about them and I'll bet that LATCC didn't ban all those without a lion and unicorn on their passport from turning up to work.
In the information age where your photo, fingerprints and history since birth can flash around the worlds intelligence and police agencies and INTERPOL in a second, if you can't work out that someone is one of the "good guys" with good intentions/attitudes - your either extremely paranoid or your counter intelligence system should be reviewed.
If you keep your head in the sand long enough something will come along and bite you on the nose
I wonder why a mode of operation thats good enough for Europe, Australia and their northern (NORAD) neighbour doesn't wash with our tin pushing brethren in the 50 states? Any ideas/opinions?
Last edited by The Crimson Fruitbat; 21st Jun 2002 at 23:43.
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This citizenship requirement basically suggests that a non US citizen poses a higher security risk just because he isn't one.
Now, this is pretty discriminating as such.
Fruitbat is absolutely right when he says that what is good enough for Oz, NZ, EUR, CA, should be good enough for the US as well.
Skyguide, as you maybe know, will merge civil and military ATCs physically by 2007, which means that all the expats working for Skyguide will work in the same room with Air Force Controllers (imagine that
).
On the other hand, after September 11th it is even more unlikely that the FAA will ever lift the citizenship requirement.
It looks like they'd rather be severly understaffed, with all the unpleasant consequences for employees and customers, than let an alien set foot in one of their facilities.
Now, this is pretty discriminating as such.
Fruitbat is absolutely right when he says that what is good enough for Oz, NZ, EUR, CA, should be good enough for the US as well.
Skyguide, as you maybe know, will merge civil and military ATCs physically by 2007, which means that all the expats working for Skyguide will work in the same room with Air Force Controllers (imagine that
). On the other hand, after September 11th it is even more unlikely that the FAA will ever lift the citizenship requirement.
It looks like they'd rather be severly understaffed, with all the unpleasant consequences for employees and customers, than let an alien set foot in one of their facilities.
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security clearances...
The fruitbat and others are correct....
Those of us working in the Middle East had to jump thru all sorts of hoops to get clearances...probably a bit higher than the average because we work EVERYTHING that runs thru our patch, just like everyone else in the non US world.
That includes just about everything that currently flies in the USAF, USN and Marine inventories, as well as Heads of States etc etc.
If it's good enough for us to work "Airforce 1" here, why should it be different to work it in the US??
Our clearances also allow us airside, not sure about the US ones, so when that VVIP arrives, we can go outside and watch if we feel like it, or, in our case a while ago, go out and have a wander around the Concorde.
Hey Fruitbat, who is the ex PH controller that just started up there? I used to be in PH a few years ago....
Those of us working in the Middle East had to jump thru all sorts of hoops to get clearances...probably a bit higher than the average because we work EVERYTHING that runs thru our patch, just like everyone else in the non US world.
That includes just about everything that currently flies in the USAF, USN and Marine inventories, as well as Heads of States etc etc.
If it's good enough for us to work "Airforce 1" here, why should it be different to work it in the US??
Our clearances also allow us airside, not sure about the US ones, so when that VVIP arrives, we can go outside and watch if we feel like it, or, in our case a while ago, go out and have a wander around the Concorde.
Hey Fruitbat, who is the ex PH controller that just started up there? I used to be in PH a few years ago....
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.......yeah it could be called coming of age I suppose, albeit late for those stateside. Europe was torn apart by two wars in last 100 years and has been dealing with the evils of terrorism as a day-to-day occurence for the last 50 years (IRA, Basques, French nationalist groups, Baader-Meinhoff, Red Army etc etc). Until recently all this was all rather "foreign" to those stateside. Security clearances in the EU seem to mean more than "where" you were born and the fact that you can cross borders with employment without undue hinderance is probably a mark of their collective maturity.
check your mail desert duck.
check your mail desert duck.
Last edited by The Crimson Fruitbat; 23rd Jun 2002 at 05:23.
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Personally I think there is an inordinate amount of 'wannabe' factor attached to the US. Would you really want to work there? You must be suckers for punishment! I think I am addicted to my 2 months annual leave now.
Is the barrier to foreigners partly contrived by the controllers to keep overtime levels etc.? Or, are the controllers begging for more staff, falling on deaf ears etc?
Is the barrier to foreigners partly contrived by the controllers to keep overtime levels etc.? Or, are the controllers begging for more staff, falling on deaf ears etc?
