Prospect ballot
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Interesting... Over here we read a news article about the meeting between Prospect and NATS and it appeared that Prospect was in no hurry at all to even call for a ballot. In fact, it stated that they didn't want to inconvience the flying public and that they would continue to talk with NATS and probably there would be no call for a ballot on industrial action until about Sept. if there were no movement. Sounds like waiting until all the traffic is done for the season. Is this REALLY TRUE? The paper also made mention that Prospect represents the engineers who voted in favor of the pay offer...
regards
regards
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250 kts
(Cue "Points of View" voice)
Why oh why oh why do some operational ATCO's think they're the only ones who count?
You are part of a team, ALL of whom contribute to the safe, expeditious movement of air traffic.
Why don't you go out and learn a bit about how things work before spouting such offensive snide remarks.
svoigt
I don't have the figures here, but the majority of the three sections of staff balloted voted to accept the offer. The rules are however that the votes are counted on a section by section basis, and if one section votes "No" the deal is rejected.
As far as I know this is the first time there has been such a level of disagreement between the sections, and a lot of the bad feeling seems to be rooted in the recent move of staff to the new centre at Swanwick.
It seems the rest of the workforce are happy to accept this crap offer over 2 years so NATS only have to worry about the revenue earners for the next 24 months.
Why oh why oh why do some operational ATCO's think they're the only ones who count?
You are part of a team, ALL of whom contribute to the safe, expeditious movement of air traffic.
Why don't you go out and learn a bit about how things work before spouting such offensive snide remarks.
svoigt
I don't have the figures here, but the majority of the three sections of staff balloted voted to accept the offer. The rules are however that the votes are counted on a section by section basis, and if one section votes "No" the deal is rejected.
As far as I know this is the first time there has been such a level of disagreement between the sections, and a lot of the bad feeling seems to be rooted in the recent move of staff to the new centre at Swanwick.
Last edited by NATS_Not_Funny; 21st Jun 2002 at 21:46.
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I'm not suggesting that the ATCOs are the only ones who count. Only that we are the only section who had the balls to reject this crap offer. On this basis it suggests to me that the rest of the staff are willing to accept it and that therefore we are entitled to persue a bigger rise maybe in the form of the sectional claim.
NNF if you believe that the bad feeling about this offer is purely at Swanwick then you really are out of touch with ATCOs in general.
NNF if you believe that the bad feeling about this offer is purely at Swanwick then you really are out of touch with ATCOs in general.
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tug3
you appear to be missing your calculator (and probably something else for that matter)
2.2+3.7=5.9814
pretty close to six i would say
are you one of these people who now that Prospect have done what you want are looking for some other pathetic winge about them?
I hope not. Now is a time for TOTAL soladarity amongst ATCOs.
you appear to be missing your calculator (and probably something else for that matter)
2.2+3.7=5.9814
pretty close to six i would say
are you one of these people who now that Prospect have done what you want are looking for some other pathetic winge about them?
I hope not. Now is a time for TOTAL soladarity amongst ATCOs.
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All
Maybe 1/3 that represents my little part of the empire that voted No know something that you don't. Fair enough ATCOs are the money earners, but they couldn't earn their money without Engineers, Admin and even the cleaners. A point made a few pages ago about an ATCO getting a better pay rise than a librarian isn't fair - are you saying that the librarian doesn't do as much as you? They do, just not the same job. I didn't vote in this pay deal mainly cos I forgot, but also cos my ballot didn't appear, but I think I'd have voted to accept anyway. I'm not a spinless whimp as has been suggested (don't bite mt hand off over the remark). I just can't see how striking for 1% would achieve anything. Various posters have mentioned asking for other bits and bobs - UHP and OJTI type payments. Surely now is also a good time to get those through, not just a few percent.
Undercovers point about the striking was a fair one - how many of the ATCOs that voted yes would actually walk out? And what about the 272 that voted yes to the pay deal? Can you count on them to walk out with you?
I hope there is a positive outcome from the No vote - it means I get more. I'm a little ashamed of both myself and the others in my trade who voted yes, but were not spinless or weak.
Maybe 1/3 that represents my little part of the empire that voted No know something that you don't. Fair enough ATCOs are the money earners, but they couldn't earn their money without Engineers, Admin and even the cleaners. A point made a few pages ago about an ATCO getting a better pay rise than a librarian isn't fair - are you saying that the librarian doesn't do as much as you? They do, just not the same job. I didn't vote in this pay deal mainly cos I forgot, but also cos my ballot didn't appear, but I think I'd have voted to accept anyway. I'm not a spinless whimp as has been suggested (don't bite mt hand off over the remark). I just can't see how striking for 1% would achieve anything. Various posters have mentioned asking for other bits and bobs - UHP and OJTI type payments. Surely now is also a good time to get those through, not just a few percent.
Undercovers point about the striking was a fair one - how many of the ATCOs that voted yes would actually walk out? And what about the 272 that voted yes to the pay deal? Can you count on them to walk out with you?
I hope there is a positive outcome from the No vote - it means I get more. I'm a little ashamed of both myself and the others in my trade who voted yes, but were not spinless or weak.
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Please can someone explain to me where the 1% which people are going on about came from ??
I for one voted NO for more than 1%, and as such will walkout if we get the call in the hope of achieving better.
1% ?? If that's the best we can achieve, then management will be laughing all the way to the bank and Prospect will have atleast one less union member.
160
I for one voted NO for more than 1%, and as such will walkout if we get the call in the hope of achieving better.
1% ?? If that's the best we can achieve, then management will be laughing all the way to the bank and Prospect will have atleast one less union member.
160
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The 1% was mentioned as an example a few pages ago. I don't think there is anyone who would be happy with 3.2% instead of the 2.2%.
I think I suggested that around 5-6% in a one year deal may just satisfy this year with a commitment to uprate the UHP and OJTI payments in the next pay round.
ASG. You ask about the 272 who voted no. Well they have a responsibility to go with the majority just as I would if the vote had been reversed. Unless you of course are suggesting that these would be refusing to accept any increase that we may gain by taking action.
I believe that well over 70% would be prepared to walk at present at LACC and providing other units are solid then this is a fight we can win.
And by the way why should ALL of the NATS staff be bound by a common pay rise??
I think I suggested that around 5-6% in a one year deal may just satisfy this year with a commitment to uprate the UHP and OJTI payments in the next pay round.
ASG. You ask about the 272 who voted no. Well they have a responsibility to go with the majority just as I would if the vote had been reversed. Unless you of course are suggesting that these would be refusing to accept any increase that we may gain by taking action.
I believe that well over 70% would be prepared to walk at present at LACC and providing other units are solid then this is a fight we can win.
And by the way why should ALL of the NATS staff be bound by a common pay rise??
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The results were...
YES NO
ATCO Branch 275 1172
ATSS Branch 716 127
PCS 628 18
250 kts I wasn't meaning that only those at Swanwick were affected, nor that all the problems stemmed from the move. What I meant was that the problems with the project, the shifting timescales etc caused major problems throughout the whole organisation. I think, and I have heard others say, that this has been a major contributing factor to the current situation.
Is there an actual figure that the union are asking for? I can't find anyone who knows.
YES NO
ATCO Branch 275 1172
ATSS Branch 716 127
PCS 628 18
250 kts I wasn't meaning that only those at Swanwick were affected, nor that all the problems stemmed from the move. What I meant was that the problems with the project, the shifting timescales etc caused major problems throughout the whole organisation. I think, and I have heard others say, that this has been a major contributing factor to the current situation.
Is there an actual figure that the union are asking for? I can't find anyone who knows.
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H-H
Thanks for the arithmetic lesson, how could I be so stoopid, Doh!...
As to your other point, I freely admit to being sceptical when it comes to Prospect's ability to represent ATCO's interests effectively. Having only been with NATS and therefore IPMS/Prospect for 6 years, my only experience with TUs prior to this was with UNISON, (nee NALGO), who I found to be fairly effective and who only ever called upon us to walk once, (for one day), which spookily enough resolved the problem in our favour.
As to the BEC's decision to recommend rejection of the offer, this I fully supported and did so on the ballot paper. My feelings of disappointment stemming not from the unit Reps, BEC or Prospect itself, but with those who for whatever reason failed to follow the BEC's advice.
I do however remain sceptical as to Prospect's ability to represent us effectively. This stems from experience of UNISON, the current goverment's links to the TU, (esp 'white collar'), movement and other snippets, for example S.Voigt's most recent post on this thread. I still remain convinced that we, (ATCOs), could be better served in a union of which we make up more than I.5% of its membership and, given that we function in a 'commercial' environment, one which does the same. BALPA, for various reasons, would be my personal prefered choice as I feel more in common with aircrew than I do with, for example, a Forensic Scientist or Nuclear Chemist, etc.
But then thats my opinion and I'll stick to it for the time being, pay my dues, support the Union for the benefit of its members and stand shoulder to shoulder with you at the front gate, should we end up there!
Rgds
T3
Thanks for the arithmetic lesson, how could I be so stoopid, Doh!...
As to your other point, I freely admit to being sceptical when it comes to Prospect's ability to represent ATCO's interests effectively. Having only been with NATS and therefore IPMS/Prospect for 6 years, my only experience with TUs prior to this was with UNISON, (nee NALGO), who I found to be fairly effective and who only ever called upon us to walk once, (for one day), which spookily enough resolved the problem in our favour.
As to the BEC's decision to recommend rejection of the offer, this I fully supported and did so on the ballot paper. My feelings of disappointment stemming not from the unit Reps, BEC or Prospect itself, but with those who for whatever reason failed to follow the BEC's advice.
I do however remain sceptical as to Prospect's ability to represent us effectively. This stems from experience of UNISON, the current goverment's links to the TU, (esp 'white collar'), movement and other snippets, for example S.Voigt's most recent post on this thread. I still remain convinced that we, (ATCOs), could be better served in a union of which we make up more than I.5% of its membership and, given that we function in a 'commercial' environment, one which does the same. BALPA, for various reasons, would be my personal prefered choice as I feel more in common with aircrew than I do with, for example, a Forensic Scientist or Nuclear Chemist, etc.
But then thats my opinion and I'll stick to it for the time being, pay my dues, support the Union for the benefit of its members and stand shoulder to shoulder with you at the front gate, should we end up there!
Rgds
T3
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Its amazing how when you leave work all the problems seem to just dissapear. I finished an early shift today, dealing with yet more display problems and a couple of line faults that I doubt you ATC types would have been aware of. Now pay is a big thing for all of us. I get paid an awful lot of money for the job I do, but I'm not complaining. I'm not saying I'm, or indeed any other engineer for that matter, is not worth it, cos we are, but I get paid lots of money for the job I do. In the "outside world" I'd be hard pressed to find a job as well paid as the one I currently inhabit. If it wasn't for the ATCOs then I doubt my pay packet would bulge quite the way it does. This said there are times when I'm (and my Engineering brothers and sisters) worth every penny. I wish the engineering third of the Prospect table had voted no. I wish we had to balls to vote no. But at the end of the day if we all walked out who'd care? The management monkeys who see fit to rule our working lives manage us even worse than the ATCOs and ATSAs management cos we don't earn the money. I'm very grateful to the ATCOs for doing what they are doing. You have my total moral support. I know that's not worth much, but I hope you know where I am coming from.
Good luck and I hope you win!!
Good luck and I hope you win!!
Last edited by All Systems Go; 22nd Jun 2002 at 16:38.
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250
Student ATCO's DID vote in the ballot (I should know, I'm one), all those I've spoken with since voted no. Don't know where the figures were included in the count though.
Student ATCO's DID vote in the ballot (I should know, I'm one), all those I've spoken with since voted no. Don't know where the figures were included in the count though.
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All Systems, thanks very much. Anyone else feel like sticking together. I thought the idea of unions was to support each other, so why if one union doesn't want to agree to an offer do the other 'linked' unions not say "One for all and all that, we'll recommend rejection too...".
Power to the majority and all that, and I still think democracy is a crap idea.
Power to the majority and all that, and I still think democracy is a crap idea.
