Tea-Lady Kicks NERC Plug Again?
Man of the Marsh
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Tea-Lady Kicks NERC Plug Again?
I am sure you guys are as fed up with this as we are, but this is the only place we get lucid answers.
We were on an "unrestricted" IBZ-LGW earlier tonight (2030z) when 90min+ slot delays started happening around us. We were told that problems with The London Computer were causing flow problems in the South East UK sectors. It appeared to be the wrong time for the customary AIRAC-update chaos.
With an extra couple of tons of go-juice, we were re-routed via BHD-BCN, unrestricted (!). Brest could not arrange a tactical change towards BARLU as we had to stick to our flow clearance, but many thanks to the BHD (126.07) sector who immediately pointed us eastbound on handover. It saved almost 20 mins - subsequently reduced to 10 by the LGW runway closure and associated hold.
What happened this time, anyone?
We were on an "unrestricted" IBZ-LGW earlier tonight (2030z) when 90min+ slot delays started happening around us. We were told that problems with The London Computer were causing flow problems in the South East UK sectors. It appeared to be the wrong time for the customary AIRAC-update chaos.
With an extra couple of tons of go-juice, we were re-routed via BHD-BCN, unrestricted (!). Brest could not arrange a tactical change towards BARLU as we had to stick to our flow clearance, but many thanks to the BHD (126.07) sector who immediately pointed us eastbound on handover. It saved almost 20 mins - subsequently reduced to 10 by the LGW runway closure and associated hold.
What happened this time, anyone?
Join Date: Apr 2000
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Can't comment on this event, but I am told that the computer went down on Saturday morning for a few minutes, and deps out of LHR were halted at about 0545z.
How many times do these "hiccups" occur?
How many times do these "hiccups" occur?
Join Date: Oct 2001
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The link down to Swanwick from NAS went down for a few minutes early on Saturday morning - no problems with NAS.
And the NAS computer had a scheduled shutdown at 2200 Z last night (Monday).
Sorry, can't comment on flow restrictions applied...anybody at Swanwick got any more meat for dem bones?
And the NAS computer had a scheduled shutdown at 2200 Z last night (Monday).
Sorry, can't comment on flow restrictions applied...anybody at Swanwick got any more meat for dem bones?
Zippy
Whilst you are correct that the NERC LASs have the MIST display available, it is not the same as having proper weather display radar at the sector.
Firstly, it is only updated every thirty minutes, and glitches sometimes cause an update to be missed, making the "latest" data an hour or so out-of-date. In a fast-developing CB scenario, such data is of limited value.
Secondly, even if we attempt to use the MIST data, it must be printed out for distribution to the tactical controllers, and this process can take anything up to five minutes if the picture is brightly coloured with weather returns (ie. just the time we need it).
So MIST is, perhaps, better than nothing, but no substitute for real-time weather radar that gives a similar picture to that in virtually every aircraft that we are responsible for. Our best and most up-to-date knowledge of adverse weather comes from the pilots up there attempting to dodge it - not a way to plan things effectively.
Whilst you are correct that the NERC LASs have the MIST display available, it is not the same as having proper weather display radar at the sector.
Firstly, it is only updated every thirty minutes, and glitches sometimes cause an update to be missed, making the "latest" data an hour or so out-of-date. In a fast-developing CB scenario, such data is of limited value.
Secondly, even if we attempt to use the MIST data, it must be printed out for distribution to the tactical controllers, and this process can take anything up to five minutes if the picture is brightly coloured with weather returns (ie. just the time we need it).
So MIST is, perhaps, better than nothing, but no substitute for real-time weather radar that gives a similar picture to that in virtually every aircraft that we are responsible for. Our best and most up-to-date knowledge of adverse weather comes from the pilots up there attempting to dodge it - not a way to plan things effectively.
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Regulations were applied to the sectors concerned as staff were moved to other sectors, to alleiviate worse delays. All comes down to staff shortages i'm afraid. You may have noticed the pattern of pretty horrendous delays over the past 10 days. About 65% of these have been down to staff shortages. As for a computer problem, there wasn't one that i'm aware of, but hey it makes life so much easier to blame the system just as it is to blame ATC
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Sorry, can you clarify when you say staff shortages?
Is it pure numbers of people, or validations or sickness, as I have also been on the receiving end of these restrictions when the words lack of staff were used.
P.S. there is no anger intended in this message, just interested.
Is it pure numbers of people, or validations or sickness, as I have also been on the receiving end of these restrictions when the words lack of staff were used.
P.S. there is no anger intended in this message, just interested.
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Ayrprox, as an example the WPP agreement calss for approx 65 ATCO`s accross the unit to man an afternoon shift to cover a fully manned PSS and associated reliefs. Wednesday afternoon there are 45 rostered, before sickness etc.
I believe even senior management are now having to admit to the customers that there is a severe staffing problem at LACC. What is of more concern is that predictions suggest that in 12 months time the situation will be worse.
Standby for more crisis management and further erosion of staff morale.
I believe even senior management are now having to admit to the customers that there is a severe staffing problem at LACC. What is of more concern is that predictions suggest that in 12 months time the situation will be worse.
Standby for more crisis management and further erosion of staff morale.
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And as for night time staffing, well thats called rostering on a knife edge. It takes just ONE ATCO/ATSA to go sick before sectors have to be closed or flow measures introduced to lower capacity.
One more thought............summer has only just begun....just wait til JULY/AUGUST........don't think i'd want to be on a bucket and spade flight then.
One more thought............summer has only just begun....just wait til JULY/AUGUST........don't think i'd want to be on a bucket and spade flight then.
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I understand that Wednesday 12th is very bad in the afternoon with a number of sectors not able to be split. The policy is that the nights should have the correct staffing and then the mornings with an emphasis on spinners onto the am shifts to try to get through with little/no delays in the morning.
But NATS and the operators just have to face it that WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH STAFF TO RUN THE OPERATION and will not have for some considerable period of time-and NATS have known this for years.
But NATS and the operators just have to face it that WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH STAFF TO RUN THE OPERATION and will not have for some considerable period of time-and NATS have known this for years.
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From the CFMU website today.....
HIGH DELAYS
Valid from 12 Jun 2002 to 12 Jun 2002 (released 12 Jun 2002 at 17:35:48)
HIGH DELAYS THROUGH DOVER/LYD SECTORS
.
DUE TO STAFF SHORTAGE IN LONDON SOME OF THE SECTORS ARE
COLLAPSED. THE HIGHEST DELAYS ARE THROUGHT DOVER/LYD SECTORS, AND OPERATORS ARE ADVICED TO TRY TO RE-ROUTE IF POSSIBLE. THE AVERAGE DELAYS ARE ABOUT 70 MINS AND OPERATORS SHOULD NOT CALL THE HELPDESK WITH DELAYS BELOW THE AVERAGE.
.
FMD BRUSSELS
WF.
HIGH DELAYS
Valid from 12 Jun 2002 to 12 Jun 2002 (released 12 Jun 2002 at 17:35:48)
HIGH DELAYS THROUGH DOVER/LYD SECTORS
.
DUE TO STAFF SHORTAGE IN LONDON SOME OF THE SECTORS ARE
COLLAPSED. THE HIGHEST DELAYS ARE THROUGHT DOVER/LYD SECTORS, AND OPERATORS ARE ADVICED TO TRY TO RE-ROUTE IF POSSIBLE. THE AVERAGE DELAYS ARE ABOUT 70 MINS AND OPERATORS SHOULD NOT CALL THE HELPDESK WITH DELAYS BELOW THE AVERAGE.
.
FMD BRUSSELS
WF.
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Those reroutes mean Italy oceanic departures, Swiss-UK arrivals, UK-Cyprus departures etc all route through Clacton Sector. This means longer delays for those aircraft which habitually route through Clacton. Clacton took a pounding all afternoon yesterday (not forgetting that NSEA was open on only one position all afternoon as well due staff shortage).
When will it improve? You might well ask.
There were however plenty of suits (from CE downwards) ambling around the Ops room yesterday. Perhaps they were seeing what it's really like before the result of the pay ballot is announced later in the week...
When will it improve? You might well ask.
There were however plenty of suits (from CE downwards) ambling around the Ops room yesterday. Perhaps they were seeing what it's really like before the result of the pay ballot is announced later in the week...
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Apparently LACC were only able to open 15 out of a possible 25 sectors on the pm duty of the 12th.
I wonder if the "suits" ever got into the Ops room and if they did,did they get past flow??-as this now seems to be the part of the operation which attracts the most attention.
I wonder if the "suits" ever got into the Ops room and if they did,did they get past flow??-as this now seems to be the part of the operation which attracts the most attention.
