Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Ground & Other Ops Forums > ATC Issues
Reload this Page >

Perth Int. runway designation question

Wikiposts
Search
ATC Issues A place where pilots may enter the 'lions den' that is Air Traffic Control in complete safety and find out the answers to all those obscure topics which you always wanted to know the answer to but were afraid to ask.

Perth Int. runway designation question

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 26th Feb 2015, 15:02
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: China
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Exclamation Perth Int. runway designation question

Hey all. new here and i have a question on my mind about perth airport.
Why is runway 03/21 not a 01/19 which is more accurate for its heading?
Thanks heaps.
Leon Tsao is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2015, 21:44
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Up north
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Id say it was because it would have been too close to the third (now closed) runway 11/29.
Somewhere In Time is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2015, 22:48
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: China
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thank u for reply, but the new runway is 03R/21L, so should be another reason for the runway "wrong" designation.
The actual orientation of the main runway at Perth Int. SI 016/196 degrees Magnetic. On this basis, the runways should have a designation of 02/20.
Leon Tsao is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 04:52
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: East side of OZ
Posts: 624
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Years ago the present 03/21 at YPPH was known as 02/20. The name was changed, in the mid 1980s I think, to try and avoid the confusion of having too many to's/2's/02's/20's and the resultant cockups due to misunderstanding or mishearing ATC instructions. This despite the fact that there are many other R/W 02/20 combinations elsewhere that seem to function well.

Cheers,
BH.
Bullethead is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 10:35
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: jersey
Age: 74
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Well,

I'd never heard of this practice before !
kcockayne is online now  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 11:44
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Surrounding the localizer
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Well,

I'd never heard of this practice before !
Then you've never had any dealings with Oz and aviation? Best practice and practical are often two mutually exclusive terms in Oz aviation..repeat after me Daaaaayseeemal
haughtney1 is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 12:00
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: East side of OZ
Posts: 624
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not so uncommon really. There are four parallel runways at KLAX all aligned 069/249 magnetic but the north complex is designated 06/24 L&R and the south complex 07/25 L&R. Strictly all the runways should be 07/25 something but it's convenient and it works.

Cheers,
BH.
Bullethead is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 13:00
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Surrounding the localizer
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Bullet, are you honestly comparing KLAX to YPPH? particularly in relation to runway designation? the 24/25 designation is to differentiate between the north and south complex.
haughtney1 is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 13:45
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: jersey
Age: 74
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Well, You live & learn! & no, I've never been to Oz.
kcockayne is online now  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 16:37
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,818
Received 201 Likes on 93 Posts
Strictly all the runways should be 07/25 something
You mean:
07L/25R
07-second-from-the-left/25-second-from-the-right
07-second-from-the-right/25-second-from-the-left
07R/25L

I guess the runways weren't wide enough to paint on those designators.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runway#Naming
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2015, 01:04
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: East side of OZ
Posts: 624
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yeah, yeah I know all that.

I was just pointing out that sometimes runways are given convenient names rather than strictly correct designators.

Cheers,
BH.
Bullethead is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2015, 02:33
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Singapore
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
WSSS has 02 / 20 L C R!
flying.monkeyz is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2015, 03:56
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SA
Age: 63
Posts: 2,299
Received 135 Likes on 98 Posts
WSSS has 02 / 20 L C R!
I think the L C R makes a difference.
YSSY should be 16L&R, 34L&R and 06/24 however 16/34 and 06/24 would be a good combination.

Sometimes common sense comes into play. Perhaps YPPH runway designations will be reviewed when the concrete is being laid on the parallel.
sunnySA is online now  
Old 28th Feb 2015, 05:05
  #14 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: China
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hi, Bullet

ICAO AN14 V1 5.2.2.4
On four or more parallel runways, one set of adjacent runways shall be numbered to the nearest one-tenth magnetic azimuth and the other set of adjacent runways numbered to the next nearest one-tenth of the magnetic azimuth.

So, the runway designation in KLAX is reasonable.
Leon Tsao is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2015, 06:44
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,818
Received 201 Likes on 93 Posts
I was just pointing out that sometimes runways are given convenient names rather than strictly correct designators.
Fair enough.

In fact, the "convenient naming" is simply conformance with ICAO SARPS (Annex 14 - Aerodrome Design & Operations):

"A runway designation marking shall consist of a two-digit number and on parallel runways shall be supplemented with a letter. On a single runway, dual parallel runways and triple parallel runways the two-digit number shall be the whole number nearest the one-tenth of the magnetic North when viewed from the direction of approach. On four or more parallel runways, one set of adjacent runways shall be numbered to the nearest one-tenth magnetic azimuth and the other set of adjacent runways numbered to the next nearest one-tenth of the magnetic azimuth".
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2015, 22:55
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: East side of OZ
Posts: 624
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
G'day Leon and Dave,

Thanks for that info I wasn't aware of those regs but it all makes sense.

Cheers,
BH.
Bullethead is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.