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Russian radarimages jetfighters & MH17

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Russian radarimages jetfighters & MH17

Old 8th Jan 2015, 10:14
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Russian radarimages jetfighters & MH17

As a reporter I would like to have an expert verify the validity of this blogpost, which claims that a proclaimed detected jetfighter on Russian radarimages is in fact falling debri of flight MH17

http://www.whathappenedtoflightmh17....hter-aircraft/

Any aircontroller who can comment on it?
ReporterRudy is offline  
Old 8th Jan 2015, 14:48
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I was a Radar Controller for 35 years, so have some experience in the field. This includes using Primary Radar alone over a period of 6 years & using PRI & SSR (Secondary Radar) together on the same display screen for the following 29 years.
Unless I have missed something in the 2 radar pictures provided, there is absolutely nothing to indicate positively that any of the "dots" are either parts of an aircraft or of an intact fighter aircraft.
In short, this is totally useless as proof, or even as a suggestion of, any debris or aircraft. However, bearing in mind that the aircraft broke up in flight, large pieces of the aircraft would be displayed on the radar display.
Hope this helps!
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Old 8th Jan 2015, 15:11
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I should have clarified; the pieces of debris, if large enough (& they should have been so), would have shown on the Primary Radar (& not on the SSR).
Also, a still photograph does absolutely nothing, in the sense of PRI, to distinguish or present what may be debris. A moving picture (over several minutes duration) would be necessary for this.
There are many indications shown on PRI which are not aircraft eg birds, weather, buildings, hills, objects which are not moving horizontally, electrical phenomena etc. These are normally filtered out so that the Radar Controller is only looking at moving targets.
There is nothing in a still picture to indicate what individual paints on the radar actually are, or could be - except that there would have been paints of the parts of the wreckage if they were moving horizontally across the screen. Did the Russians provide a sequential picture of the PRI radar display ? If so, these paints of possible wreckage, might have continued to be displayed for several minutes. This would have gone a long way towards establishing that they were, indeed, wreckage from the B772.
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Old 8th Jan 2015, 18:00
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Russian Ministry of Defense provided a videorecording of the Rostov radar. It shows the progress of several aircraft in the area including MH17.
It does show the desintegration and does show radar reflections after the moment both CVR and FDR stopped.

This is a much more detailled video than the one shown on the MoD website.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=766ftKQGqls

This video shows the same area now zoomed in to MH17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it1qxP9sxqA
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Old 8th Jan 2015, 18:46
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Thanks for the video. It does appear to show the appearance of debris from the break up. This debris return lasts for 5 minutes, during which time it would have been falling to earth. That's 5 mins to fall 33000 ft.. Seems reasonable. Although the debris is still there when the video ends - so it could have taken longer than 5 mins.
At no point could I detect the existence of any military fighter aircraft in the vicinity, either on PRI or SSR.
Apart from the break up & disappearance of the B772, this does not present any evidence of an aircraft which may have shot the B772 down. Nor of the actual missile.
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Old 12th Jan 2015, 21:31
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Both Rostov's and Dnipropetrosk's ATC centers have spanish INDRA system (but different versions)
After rocket hit MH17 all A/C/S transponders stopped transmitting, but ATC system continued trying prediction of a/c track. Primary radar showed debris of either one or two biggest parts, and as well ATC system tried to predict their "movement". for example our system when does not receive any respond from target via primary/secondary radars "freezes" last target position for next 20 seconds. But I'm unaware how it work in Rostov's ATC system.
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Old 23rd Feb 2015, 19:11
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In the Radar Video, a new Objekt apears at 13.20.39UTC left of Tamak at the Corner UA/RU. What could it be? A Helicopter ?
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Old 24th Feb 2015, 10:12
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it could be russian drone. they often spy over ukrainian territory.
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 06:33
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A Drone? Is it not to small for Primary Radar? Russian MoD said, they could see only over 5000m (at MH17 Crash Area).
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Old 2nd Mar 2015, 22:16
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TC_Ukraine

Calm down dude, it was Russian "Bear" which drops atomic bombs to Ukraine from day to day!
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Old 3rd Mar 2015, 15:13
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Aviaservice clearly observed either drones or choppers with help of primary radar last year, until terrorists destoyed it (happened before MH17 crash). Dude.
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Old 17th Mar 2015, 16:56
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DelayReducer SIA351 saw nothing.
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