London ATC And Jubilee Flypast
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: London
London ATC And Jubilee Flypast
A few questions about next weeks flypast:
I heard that the aircraft will be flying at 1500ft so does this mean that SVFR Heli Ops will be halted around Central London while the Flypast takes place.
If Heathrow is using 27s for operations will landings have to be vectored away from Central London and established on the ILS further down the approach or will landings be suspended until the flypast has finished.
If EGLL is using 9s will departures still be able to take place as they don't go over Central London or would a flypast with this many aircraft need additional Airspace.
One other question, I presume the Military Controllers will be controling the Military aircraft so who will be controlling Concorde, will they do it as well or will Concorde be in contact with Heathrow Director or someone like that??
Just curious to know really what goes on with London and EGLL ATC when events like this happen, Thanks.
I heard that the aircraft will be flying at 1500ft so does this mean that SVFR Heli Ops will be halted around Central London while the Flypast takes place.
If Heathrow is using 27s for operations will landings have to be vectored away from Central London and established on the ILS further down the approach or will landings be suspended until the flypast has finished.
If EGLL is using 9s will departures still be able to take place as they don't go over Central London or would a flypast with this many aircraft need additional Airspace.
One other question, I presume the Military Controllers will be controling the Military aircraft so who will be controlling Concorde, will they do it as well or will Concorde be in contact with Heathrow Director or someone like that??
Just curious to know really what goes on with London and EGLL ATC when events like this happen, Thanks.
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: UK
If 27s are in use then arrivals will be halted for a while before until all aircraft are out of the way. Aircraft will still be able to depart LHR. 09 ops poses more restrictions of course,
No other aircraft will be allowed in the London City or London CTR's from a set time before until after the flypast.
Obviously this means that there will be no City airport or Battersea movements either.
The formations will come in from their formation points over East Anglia under the control of Wattisham Approach and handed over to Thames radar.
The fact that it is a mil/civil formation matters not in terms of who controls the aircraft - just depends on who owns the airspace.
After overflying the formations will cotinue either north east between STN/LTN or overhead Benson for recovery to Brize.
Concorde will land of a visual approach/ILS straight in (if on Westerlies).
Is that OK?!
No other aircraft will be allowed in the London City or London CTR's from a set time before until after the flypast.
Obviously this means that there will be no City airport or Battersea movements either.
The formations will come in from their formation points over East Anglia under the control of Wattisham Approach and handed over to Thames radar.
The fact that it is a mil/civil formation matters not in terms of who controls the aircraft - just depends on who owns the airspace.
After overflying the formations will cotinue either north east between STN/LTN or overhead Benson for recovery to Brize.
Concorde will land of a visual approach/ILS straight in (if on Westerlies).
Is that OK?!
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Berkshire, UK
Sonic Cruiser.... just a thought.. who do you imagine controls the RAF a/c which fly into Heathrow? For info Heathrow Approach provides an approach control service to all military a/c flying into Northolt via the airways system. We treat them like one of ours and hand them over the Northolt when they're clear of our traffic..
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: UK
"under the control of Wattisham...................and handed over to Thames".
So the controlling will be a joint SERCO/NATS effort then !!
Joking apart, here's wishing all involved, pilots and ATC, best wishes on the day.
So the controlling will be a joint SERCO/NATS effort then !!
Joking apart, here's wishing all involved, pilots and ATC, best wishes on the day.
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Thanks for the good wishes speke. Just to be pickie, Wattisham will be providing an advisory service outside CAS (unless there is any special airspace - which I doubt) and the control service will be provided by Thames in the LTMA so SERCO won't be doing any controlling, just advising. Long may it remain the same.
Z
Z
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: London
Thanks for the replies.
HD, sorry I was being thick, I know EGLL approach controls military aircraft in to EGLL and Northolt. Just wondering if it is any different for events like this etc, obviously not. Thanks for Info anyway.
HD, sorry I was being thick, I know EGLL approach controls military aircraft in to EGLL and Northolt. Just wondering if it is any different for events like this etc, obviously not. Thanks for Info anyway.
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Starring at an Airfield Near you
Just to record that Military controllers also provide control and advisory Services to civilian aircraft too! Mil area controllers at WD used to handle many civvie tracks - don't know what its like now though; and terminal controllers provide LARS - effectively for free.
Despite being 'unlicenced' and required to pay for very expensive conversion courses to get our civil licence, we were suddenly acceptable to provide services to BA and what is now BMI in the days of the 'East Coast Trial'; that is, until NATs got their act together when, overnight, suddenly we weren't 'good enough' again!
Despite being 'unlicenced' and required to pay for very expensive conversion courses to get our civil licence, we were suddenly acceptable to provide services to BA and what is now BMI in the days of the 'East Coast Trial'; that is, until NATs got their act together when, overnight, suddenly we weren't 'good enough' again!
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Berkshire, UK
Downwind.. Don't feel hard done by regarding the licence course, etc. RAF pilots also have to go throught the same nause to get civil licences. I worked for some years abroad with an ICAO ATC licence but had to sit the exams back home for my UK ATC Licence, achieving which made me extremely proud.
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From: Fort Worth ARTCC ZFW
Downwind;
You need to convince the powers that be, that when you go to school, you take the same exams as the civil side does and get your license... That is what we do on this side of the pond...
regards
You need to convince the powers that be, that when you go to school, you take the same exams as the civil side does and get your license... That is what we do on this side of the pond...
regards
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From: London UK
RAF - Civil Licences
LL DIR,
Ah but, unless I'm mistaken, the RAF pays for it's pilots to do the conversion, or at least it did till recently.
Don't know how true it is, but I heard a Lon(Mil) controller applied for a job at MACC to work Pennine. Was told "Sorry, licence not good enough". Was a different story come 9pm when they wanted to go home. "Catch this lot, Ginger!"
Ah but, unless I'm mistaken, the RAF pays for it's pilots to do the conversion, or at least it did till recently.
Don't know how true it is, but I heard a Lon(Mil) controller applied for a job at MACC to work Pennine. Was told "Sorry, licence not good enough". Was a different story come 9pm when they wanted to go home. "Catch this lot, Ginger!"
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From: UK
Just a couple of questions,Ladies and Gents.....
1) As the Fly Past was delayed by about 30 Mins were aircraft held in the air,or was the likely delay anticipated and take-off times put back accordingly ? **
2) The TV coverage of the Fly Past included spectacular shots which gave the appearance of being taken from an airborne camera. Any idea if this was the case or whether it was a camera perched on a tall building or high ground ?
**The reason I ask is that whilst I'm not familiar with the operating characteristics of the Hawk,I know that its predecessor the Gnat, was fortunate to stay airborne for an hour.It occurred to me that the lads in the Hawks might be getting a bit marginal on fuel.
1) As the Fly Past was delayed by about 30 Mins were aircraft held in the air,or was the likely delay anticipated and take-off times put back accordingly ? **
2) The TV coverage of the Fly Past included spectacular shots which gave the appearance of being taken from an airborne camera. Any idea if this was the case or whether it was a camera perched on a tall building or high ground ?
**The reason I ask is that whilst I'm not familiar with the operating characteristics of the Hawk,I know that its predecessor the Gnat, was fortunate to stay airborne for an hour.It occurred to me that the lads in the Hawks might be getting a bit marginal on fuel.
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From: London
The aircraft except for the Red Arrows held in the air with the Red Arrows taking a 30 minute delay on the ground. ( the other aircraft were airbourne prior to the delay being issued)
Pictures were received from 2 helicopters - either side of the display but only the one south of the display (at Vauxhall) was a press helicopter and this is the one obtaining the pictures you saw -
hope this helps -- wish I'd seen it for real and not on RADAR
FC
Pictures were received from 2 helicopters - either side of the display but only the one south of the display (at Vauxhall) was a press helicopter and this is the one obtaining the pictures you saw -
hope this helps -- wish I'd seen it for real and not on RADAR
FC
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From: Hampshire UK
Hi Red Four,
I was working Thames Radar during the flypast and it all went rather smoothly, apart from the 30 minutes delay. Three LCY inbounds were delayed by 5 - 10 minutes, but both Zones were clear of low level traffic for at least 10 minutes before the flypast aircraft passed Fairlop. They passed close to Stapleford, but only the odd A7000 squawk was observed on radar. Silverline News was the press helicopter at 2400ft at Vauxhall filming the flypast at 1500ft, (NOT 15000ft as Jenny Bond reported on the BBC News!) as it passed underneath and to the North. The only slight glitch was the helicopters not clearing the area before the first LCY 10 arrival appeared South of London Bridge, but this was soon resolved. The Concorde climbed to 3000ft and established straight in on the 27R ILS. A successful exercise, all in all.
I was working Thames Radar during the flypast and it all went rather smoothly, apart from the 30 minutes delay. Three LCY inbounds were delayed by 5 - 10 minutes, but both Zones were clear of low level traffic for at least 10 minutes before the flypast aircraft passed Fairlop. They passed close to Stapleford, but only the odd A7000 squawk was observed on radar. Silverline News was the press helicopter at 2400ft at Vauxhall filming the flypast at 1500ft, (NOT 15000ft as Jenny Bond reported on the BBC News!) as it passed underneath and to the North. The only slight glitch was the helicopters not clearing the area before the first LCY 10 arrival appeared South of London Bridge, but this was soon resolved. The Concorde climbed to 3000ft and established straight in on the 27R ILS. A successful exercise, all in all.
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From: Hither and Thither
Thanks Atco 2,
Sounds like it all went quite smoothly.
There certainly seemed to be little else flying most of the afternoon. Perhaps we could have a flypast every day Failing that, a world cup football match seems to have the same effect No, that wouldn't be good for the nerves!
Sounds like it all went quite smoothly.
There certainly seemed to be little else flying most of the afternoon. Perhaps we could have a flypast every day
Failing that, a world cup football match seems to have the same effect No, that wouldn't be good for the nerves!
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From: a galaxy far, far,away...
Red 4
I was working Wattisham radar (we opened especially for the flypast). All the a/c were already airborne, some joined up, before we found out about the dla. The only a/c that were a little interested by it were the PR9's, although getting the F3's AAR'ed and into position took a while. The Southwold hold had to be moved due wx over the North Sea, and ended up with Debenham (Suffolk) at one end and nearly-Southwold at t'other. Sent Mrs Persuader & son to a pub named, aptly enough, the Beagle to watch it! Looked good on radar, glad everyone enjoyed it!
ap.
I was working Wattisham radar (we opened especially for the flypast). All the a/c were already airborne, some joined up, before we found out about the dla. The only a/c that were a little interested by it were the PR9's, although getting the F3's AAR'ed and into position took a while. The Southwold hold had to be moved due wx over the North Sea, and ended up with Debenham (Suffolk) at one end and nearly-Southwold at t'other. Sent Mrs Persuader & son to a pub named, aptly enough, the Beagle to watch it! Looked good on radar, glad everyone enjoyed it!
ap.
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: London, UK
Flypast not down the Mall ?
A friend who was in the Mall for the flypast noticed that in contrast to other flypasts that he had seen, this one did not fly straight down the Mall, but was offset to one side. He would like to know if this was deliberate (safety or security considerations ?) or whether somebody just got lined up wrong 
.
Does anybody know why this might have been, or can enlighten us on how these flypasts are lined up ?
He says that there was a noticeable air of dissapointment that the flypast didn't actually go overhead
Thanks for your time.
.Does anybody know why this might have been, or can enlighten us on how these flypasts are lined up ?
He says that there was a noticeable air of dissapointment that the flypast didn't actually go overhead
Thanks for your time.
