"Land After" UK / ... now SVO
Only half a speed-brake
Thread Starter
"Land After" UK / ... now SVO
It has been quite some time since I last operated to LHR. I do remember studying "Land after.." procedure.
Recently a notam was issued for SVO:
I tried, without success, to find UK regulatory reference to the procedure I recall. Can you help?
Thankfuly,
FD.
Recently a notam was issued for SVO:
(A3521/14 NOTAMR A3444/2014
Q) UUWV/QFAXX/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5558N03725E005
A) UUEE
B) 1409091000 C) PERM
E) SHEREMETYEVO-TOWER, CONTROLLER SHALL ISSUE CONDITIONAL LANDING CLEARANCE ,,LAND AFTER..., WHEN THE PROCEDURE OF THE REDUCED RUNWAY SEPARATION MINIMA IS APPLIED. RESPONSIBILITY FOR ENSURING THE SAFE DISTANCE TO THE PRECEDING LANDING ACFT IS PLACED ON PILOT-IN-COMMAND OF THE SUCCEEDING ACFT. REF AIP AD 2.1 UUEE-15,16.)
Q) UUWV/QFAXX/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5558N03725E005
A) UUEE
B) 1409091000 C) PERM
E) SHEREMETYEVO-TOWER, CONTROLLER SHALL ISSUE CONDITIONAL LANDING CLEARANCE ,,LAND AFTER..., WHEN THE PROCEDURE OF THE REDUCED RUNWAY SEPARATION MINIMA IS APPLIED. RESPONSIBILITY FOR ENSURING THE SAFE DISTANCE TO THE PRECEDING LANDING ACFT IS PLACED ON PILOT-IN-COMMAND OF THE SUCCEEDING ACFT. REF AIP AD 2.1 UUEE-15,16.)
Thankfuly,
FD.
Last edited by FlightDetent; 12th Sep 2014 at 20:41.
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In the UK CAP493:Manual of Air Traffic Services, Section 2, Chapter 1: Aerodrome Control, paragraph 1.94 (Page 21 of Section 2). Details the requirements for a Land after in the UK. Still in regular use at LHR.
Only half a speed-brake
Thread Starter
Many thanks Geffen. Exactly what I have been looking for.
Also, now I see CAP413 has the phraseologies, together with MATS definition verbatim (4.56).
Yours,
FD.
Also, now I see CAP413 has the phraseologies, together with MATS definition verbatim (4.56).
Yours,
FD.
Last edited by FlightDetent; 12th Sep 2014 at 20:41.
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For Aircrew:
UK 'Land After' Procedure: UK IAIP GEN 3.3-6 Para 3.8.3
UK Special Landing Procedures ('After the Landing etc/Departing etc) : UK IAIP GEN 3.3-6 Para 3.8.4
(HD: I note that it is now only published for London Gatwick and London Stansted (ie. single-runway operation) Airports. It would appear that it has been withdrawn at those airports with parallels and dedicated mode usage (eg. London Heathrow and Manchester)
UK 'Land After' Procedure: UK IAIP GEN 3.3-6 Para 3.8.3
UK Special Landing Procedures ('After the Landing etc/Departing etc) : UK IAIP GEN 3.3-6 Para 3.8.4
(HD: I note that it is now only published for London Gatwick and London Stansted (ie. single-runway operation) Airports. It would appear that it has been withdrawn at those airports with parallels and dedicated mode usage (eg. London Heathrow and Manchester)
Only half a speed-brake
Thread Starter
TDM
3.8.4 is very interesting. Also, the AIP referece is the only relevant one for foreign aircrew.
Any ideas, why the content of 3.8.4 in not available from the AD section? This is where we normally look at for AD-specific rules.
Thanks yet again,
FD.
3.8.4 is very interesting. Also, the AIP referece is the only relevant one for foreign aircrew.
Any ideas, why the content of 3.8.4 in not available from the AD section? This is where we normally look at for AD-specific rules.
Thanks yet again,
FD.
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent
the AIP referece is the only relevant one for foreign aircrew
Originally Posted by FlightDetent
Any ideas, why the content of 3.8.4 in not available from the AD section? This is where we normally look at for AD-specific rules.
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LHRPony, the two procedures are distinctly different. The 'Land After' procedure is UK-wide, whereas the 'Special Landing Procedures' are location-specific (currently only at high-intensity SRO airports, Gatwick and Stansted). In the former the pilot is responsible for separation, whereas in the latter the ATCO remains responsible for separation, and the procedure is subject to numerous conditions.
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LHRPony unwittingly demonstrates why having two types of conditional landing instructions with similar phraseology may not be a good idea.
One ("After the Landing") being a clearance where ATC retain separation responsibility and the other ("Land After") an instruction to the pilot to effectively land at his/her discrection
They were often confused, give one and the other was read-back to you. If the aircraft is on a short final do you have time to correct it? Does the flight crew understand the difference? If not correction is made, do you actually have the criteria to enable the one that was read-back to safely exist?
ad nauseam.
One ("After the Landing") being a clearance where ATC retain separation responsibility and the other ("Land After") an instruction to the pilot to effectively land at his/her discrection
They were often confused, give one and the other was read-back to you. If the aircraft is on a short final do you have time to correct it? Does the flight crew understand the difference? If not correction is made, do you actually have the criteria to enable the one that was read-back to safely exist?
ad nauseam.
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Ha ha lhr pony has demonstrated that he frequently gets the wrong end of the stick and is an eejit.
I don't think that crews are "at fault" for not knowing what the procedure means, nor do I get annoyed when an aircrew correctly go-around following a land-after if they are not comfortable with the separation that they are now responsible for.