Well deserved bonuses for NATS Mgt
Well deserved bonuses for NATS Mgt
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 59
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From: Swanwick
The rumour mill was operating on overtime yesterday at Swanwick so I dont know how true this is. I was told that the management were given one years salary as a bonus for bringing Swanwick on line on time(ie six years late). We tend to believe the rumours as we have no real information to go on, So no change there then!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 106
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From: Here to Eternity
That rumour isn't true.
From what I've heard the standard management bonuses are on hold at the moment... although I heard a whisper that the top boys have voted themselves a hefty bonus... we're not talking small change I bet!!
From what I've heard the standard management bonuses are on hold at the moment... although I heard a whisper that the top boys have voted themselves a hefty bonus... we're not talking small change I bet!!
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Posts: n/a
Times are not as hard as management would like us to believe in the letter we received yesterday. The word on street is that management will get approx 10% of basic salary this year, because NERC has been reasonably successful. Successful, because of ATCO's making the system work as they always have done, and always will do, as a professional group of people.
The airlines have already reinstated 99% of their flights that they cancelled post 9/11. Things are on the up in a big way.
The airlines have already reinstated 99% of their flights that they cancelled post 9/11. Things are on the up in a big way.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7
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From: UK
I guess the official response would be something like :-
It is important to pay the senior management a bonus as we need to attract a high quality management. Only by offering attractive packages can we get the quality of staff that is required.
I won't comment.
It is important to pay the senior management a bonus as we need to attract a high quality management. Only by offering attractive packages can we get the quality of staff that is required.
I won't comment.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15
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From: south coast Bournemouth Area
Quote
'It is important to pay the senior management a bonus as we need to attract a high quality management. Only by offering attractive packages can we get the quality of staff that is required.'
Jesus You Are Joking !!!
Most of Tesco's under 21's have more interpersonal skills than an average ATSA 3 (no offence guys) let alone Mgt
MM
'It is important to pay the senior management a bonus as we need to attract a high quality management. Only by offering attractive packages can we get the quality of staff that is required.'
Jesus You Are Joking !!!
Most of Tesco's under 21's have more interpersonal skills than an average ATSA 3 (no offence guys) let alone Mgt
MM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 106
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From: Here to Eternity
Yeah I've heard that line used many times in this company... but haven't you got to move the old guard out first???
It's a bit like Craig Brown's Scotland squad - It's harder to get out than it is to get in!
It's a bit like Craig Brown's Scotland squad - It's harder to get out than it is to get in!
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,839
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From: Adrift upon the tides of fate
A great way to get some leverage over the managers is to throw their remuneration packages in their faces.
Of course, you need to know what they are in order to do that. Have the question asked in parliament- it's a good way to get what should be public, public.
Of course, you need to know what they are in order to do that. Have the question asked in parliament- it's a good way to get what should be public, public.
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 343
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From: UK
Mysteryman
To your comments
.....both groups have more interpersonal skills than you obviously possess (offence meant)
To your comments
Most of Tesco's under 21's have more interpersonal skills than an average ATSA 3 (no offence guys)
(offence meant)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7
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From: UK
It is normal for all remuneration packages to be kept confidential, unless it is being applied across the board. I.E. The objectives are company ones rather than individual ones.
The exception to this is usually Directors. Details about their renumeration can sometimes be found in a copy of the company annual report. It may also give details about their share holding and share options.
Try writing to the company secretary for a copy.
Directors bonuses may have to be approved by shareholders. I seem to remember a recent case that a company came up with such a complicated way of determining if they had achieved the bonus, no one could understand it and the institutuion shareholders would not approve it.
It is little point in throwing their remuneration packages in their face. What will it achieve ? There are a variety of responces that they may give. A few options may be ‘ Yes we are worth it’, ‘If it is so good why don’t you come and join us’ to name but a few.
It is also worth remembering that even if the company is not performing very well, they may be performing better than last year. An example would be increase sales by 5%. This may not bring the sales figures back to the level of a few years ago and the company may still be struggling, but you have met the requirement.
If you had an agreement that you would receive a bonus of x% if Swanwick was opened before x date (With CAA approval). You achieved this, and were then told that due to other problems in operating the system, you would not be receiving your bonus. You would have something to say. I know that this example probably oversimplifies it, but it illustrated the point.
I know that this may not be what you want to hear, but you have to be realistic.
The exception to this is usually Directors. Details about their renumeration can sometimes be found in a copy of the company annual report. It may also give details about their share holding and share options.
Try writing to the company secretary for a copy.
Directors bonuses may have to be approved by shareholders. I seem to remember a recent case that a company came up with such a complicated way of determining if they had achieved the bonus, no one could understand it and the institutuion shareholders would not approve it.
It is little point in throwing their remuneration packages in their face. What will it achieve ? There are a variety of responces that they may give. A few options may be ‘ Yes we are worth it’, ‘If it is so good why don’t you come and join us’ to name but a few.
It is also worth remembering that even if the company is not performing very well, they may be performing better than last year. An example would be increase sales by 5%. This may not bring the sales figures back to the level of a few years ago and the company may still be struggling, but you have met the requirement.
If you had an agreement that you would receive a bonus of x% if Swanwick was opened before x date (With CAA approval). You achieved this, and were then told that due to other problems in operating the system, you would not be receiving your bonus. You would have something to say. I know that this example probably oversimplifies it, but it illustrated the point.
I know that this may not be what you want to hear, but you have to be realistic.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,839
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From: Adrift upon the tides of fate
Realistic?????
There can be no other reason for keeping a remuneration package secret other than so you don't look stupid while negotiating with the workers, telling them there is no money for increases etc.
What about transparency? What KPI's were applied to achieve a bonus? What benchmarking is being applied to determine your worth?
Ever heard of accountability? Aren't shareholders (the staff) and stakeholders (the public, not just TAG) entitled to that?
There can be no other reason for keeping a remuneration package secret other than so you don't look stupid while negotiating with the workers, telling them there is no money for increases etc.
What about transparency? What KPI's were applied to achieve a bonus? What benchmarking is being applied to determine your worth?
Ever heard of accountability? Aren't shareholders (the staff) and stakeholders (the public, not just TAG) entitled to that?
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 74
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From: my house
I think only one of the previous touched on the key issue - can anyone atco1 or below think of anything that has happened in NATS over the last year that could conceivably be seen as succesful enough to merit lobbing out hard earned cash to a suit ?
answers on an exceptionally small postcard please, obviously written in exceptionally small type
answers on an exceptionally small postcard please, obviously written in exceptionally small type
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7
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From: UK
foo fighting
I understand what you say, unfortunately you have to define ‘successful’, and in who’s view. It is usually successful in the eyes of your superior / government / shareholders. I admit as the airlines are shareholders, this could open up an interesting discussion.
Thus someone has been successful is someone who has achieved what has been asked of them, despite how badly the company may have performed.
In most companies senior managers are on personal contracts. I.E. there are terms that they have had some input into negotiating salary, bonus etc. They are not fixed by grade. Thus the usual level of benchmarking that has been applied could be described as ‘supply and demand’ .
How good at negotiating your conditions are you. Management will always say that there is no money, Look at all the industrial disputes form the past. How many times have you heard the words ‘Final offer’ only to find later a few more ££’s have been found. They are hardly going to say that they have £x available for pay increases but are only going to give you £x/2.
How good is the union at negotiating salary increases. I would have thought that you should have a fairly strong position.
1) Is there a shortage of staff
2) How long does it take to train new staff
3) How visible / what is the impact of a strike / industrial action.
However you have to be able to back up your claim. I remember that the Firemen at EGCC were very good at negotiating their pay rise. Why? They all stuck kept together, they had a union, management could not do their job, it takes a long time to train them, strike action was very effective.
On the other had if not much happens management will offer very little. Why should they ? When you do the shopping, you don’t pay more than you need, do you.
If you think that you are poorly paid, why have you not left for another job else where ? What selling points could you put on your CV for another job ? Everyone would like more !
Don’t get me wrong, you do a very difficult job in extremely difficult circumstances. I am only trying to suggest what may be being seen from the other side of the fence. If you can appreciate how management may be thinking, then you can use it to your advantage. Throwing insults at management won’t get you very far, you have to be smarter than that.
I understand what you say, unfortunately you have to define ‘successful’, and in who’s view. It is usually successful in the eyes of your superior / government / shareholders. I admit as the airlines are shareholders, this could open up an interesting discussion.
Thus someone has been successful is someone who has achieved what has been asked of them, despite how badly the company may have performed.
In most companies senior managers are on personal contracts. I.E. there are terms that they have had some input into negotiating salary, bonus etc. They are not fixed by grade. Thus the usual level of benchmarking that has been applied could be described as ‘supply and demand’ .
How good at negotiating your conditions are you. Management will always say that there is no money, Look at all the industrial disputes form the past. How many times have you heard the words ‘Final offer’ only to find later a few more ££’s have been found. They are hardly going to say that they have £x available for pay increases but are only going to give you £x/2.
How good is the union at negotiating salary increases. I would have thought that you should have a fairly strong position.
1) Is there a shortage of staff
2) How long does it take to train new staff
3) How visible / what is the impact of a strike / industrial action.
However you have to be able to back up your claim. I remember that the Firemen at EGCC were very good at negotiating their pay rise. Why? They all stuck kept together, they had a union, management could not do their job, it takes a long time to train them, strike action was very effective.
On the other had if not much happens management will offer very little. Why should they ? When you do the shopping, you don’t pay more than you need, do you.
If you think that you are poorly paid, why have you not left for another job else where ? What selling points could you put on your CV for another job ? Everyone would like more !
Don’t get me wrong, you do a very difficult job in extremely difficult circumstances. I am only trying to suggest what may be being seen from the other side of the fence. If you can appreciate how management may be thinking, then you can use it to your advantage. Throwing insults at management won’t get you very far, you have to be smarter than that.