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Q: Russian military flights

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Q: Russian military flights

Old 24th Apr 2014, 08:57
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Question Q: Russian military flights

Hi

Article: Dutch fighter jets intercept 2 Russian bombers in their airspace - CNN.com

Do they fly in controlled RVSM European airspace without flight plans, transponders and any ATC control? I assume from the article they fly where they want and how they want.
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Old 24th Apr 2014, 11:31
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I assume from the article they fly where they want and how they want.
The article implies that they rarely infringe sovereign airspace, and in fact have never done so as far as the UK, at least, is concerned.
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Old 24th Apr 2014, 12:26
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But how this can happen if they are under radar and ATC control? I assume they don't communicate with ATC. How collisions with other aircraft are avoided?
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Old 24th Apr 2014, 13:31
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As far as I know, they do as they want, when they want !
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Old 24th Apr 2014, 13:43
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There's a big difference between sovereign airspace and the airspace a country is responsible for providing ANS for. The Russians regularly pop up in controlled airspace but I have never heard of them violating sovereign airspace in my country
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 09:29
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Outside of territorial waters they fly with Due Regard.
 
Old 25th Apr 2014, 10:50
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Yep, in international waters (so to speak) an aircraft can operate 'with due regard'. Ironically the biggest problem 'due regard' aircraft have caused me while working overseas have belonged to our biggest ally, still at least they were speaking to me!
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 14:31
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They do fly in regulated airspace and they do not squawk or communicate with ATC. Sometimes the only way to tell their position is from the squawk of the escorting fighter(s).
It is a big problem when they go from one FIR to another as ATC requires height, point of entry etc and this cannot be provided. That said, over the last 30 years they have rarely caused any grief, apart from the nuisance value.
They have not breached territorial waters to my knowledge and they remain in International Airspace at all times. The fact that NATO designates some of this airspace as a Policing Area makes no difference.
Despite the hand waving of the Daily Mail the recent flights, and intercepts, are very common. If they were.nt, I would have been made redundant years ago......

As an aside, it is only when you read newspaper reports that cover a subject you know about that you realise what a lot of utter rubbish is published as so called
fact.
Better still is when you read the associated comments from so called experts that you also realise there are indeed some very strange people out there.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 20:00
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Thank you for your great answers! It's more clear but more questions arise. What do ATC do with civil aircraft in the near vicinity? If they fly super sonic and/or change altitude, direction rapidly? Who will be responsible if they collide with civil aircraft in IMC conditions? Do Russians use electronic counter measures to deceive or evade radar?

I don't remember reading about this in air law but if I fly private aircraft in international airspace can I also turn off transponder and do not talk to ATC? Will I be fined for this?
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 22:05
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I don't remember reading about this in air law but if I fly private aircraft in international airspace can I also turn off transponder and do not talk to ATC? Will I be fined for this?
"Due Regard" procedures apply to Military operators only. Civilian operators entering a class of airspace which requires an air traffic control clearance prior to entry are open to reporting action in the event that they enter/infringe such airspace without having obtained the necessary ATC clearance.

Not only will you likely be fined by the state regulator which issued your PPL, CPL, whatever, and put your continuing to hold such a document at some risk, but depending upon the circumstances and in the current political/security climate, you may find yourself in the company of one of these...



Even out in the mid-Atlantic it is Class A Airspace above FL55, and guess what you need, as a civilian, to operate within Class A...
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