Serco's crumbling Empire
niknak
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..... Serco and NATS have both dipped out on 2 major UK ATC contracts, to be fair, both companies put in a lot of effort to come up with a reasonable price to provide a service to the clients, but when push came to shove, they couldnt, and it clearly demonstrates that there's no reason to employ contractors when you can do it yourself just as easily and more cheaply.
In the near future, Manchester will do their own thing and dispense with NATS, others are bound to follow, leaving NATS with just area and the major London airports. Serco have already lost 2 contracts and will lose more, is this the end for ATC contractors in the UK?
In the near future, Manchester will do their own thing and dispense with NATS, others are bound to follow, leaving NATS with just area and the major London airports. Serco have already lost 2 contracts and will lose more, is this the end for ATC contractors in the UK?
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Niknak,You state that Nats will be left with Area and the London Airports.Well it may come as a surprise but Nats do have one or two other lesser known
places.Aberdeen,Belfast,Edinburgh,Glasgow,Southampton,Aberpo rth,Birmingham,Farnborough,Cardiff not a mention offshore and approach for Sumburgh,Anglia Radar done from Aberdeen.Apologies if I've missed any out.
I believe that Manchester renewed the contract not so long ago and the BAA contract is being talked about.It is very difficult to change ATC supplier just like that with the SRG overseeing ,so I think your last post missed the mark somewhat.
places.Aberdeen,Belfast,Edinburgh,Glasgow,Southampton,Aberpo rth,Birmingham,Farnborough,Cardiff not a mention offshore and approach for Sumburgh,Anglia Radar done from Aberdeen.Apologies if I've missed any out.
I believe that Manchester renewed the contract not so long ago and the BAA contract is being talked about.It is very difficult to change ATC supplier just like that with the SRG overseeing ,so I think your last post missed the mark somewhat.
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Niknak,
I have always admired your comments on this forum but this time you speak from a position of total ignorance. Have you ever managed a ‘contract’ for ATC for an airport as a contractor, or managed a ‘contract’ with ATCOs ?? No, you haven’t Niknak. You have only ever been a worker. Your high handed attitude should be tempered with real experience. (and the answer to your obvious question is, yes I have – as a contractor for ATC at about 10 airports).
‘Contractors’ such as NATS & Serco can give the customer much experience of managing employees like ATCOs (most of whom are very similar to ‘Attilla the Hun’). I am an ATCO (43 years experience), I know what the temperament of ATCOs is like, it is somewhat akin to managing Lawyers or Doctors.
So sharpen up Niknak and understand why airports contract out the employment of ATCOs. It is because of difficult intelligent people like you who are sometimes totally unreasonable in their demands but are frequently more intelligent than their ‘personnel department’ counterparts, therefore management need contractors to ‘manage’ you.
Experienced old man
I have always admired your comments on this forum but this time you speak from a position of total ignorance. Have you ever managed a ‘contract’ for ATC for an airport as a contractor, or managed a ‘contract’ with ATCOs ?? No, you haven’t Niknak. You have only ever been a worker. Your high handed attitude should be tempered with real experience. (and the answer to your obvious question is, yes I have – as a contractor for ATC at about 10 airports).
‘Contractors’ such as NATS & Serco can give the customer much experience of managing employees like ATCOs (most of whom are very similar to ‘Attilla the Hun’). I am an ATCO (43 years experience), I know what the temperament of ATCOs is like, it is somewhat akin to managing Lawyers or Doctors.
So sharpen up Niknak and understand why airports contract out the employment of ATCOs. It is because of difficult intelligent people like you who are sometimes totally unreasonable in their demands but are frequently more intelligent than their ‘personnel department’ counterparts, therefore management need contractors to ‘manage’ you.
Experienced old man
niknak
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Ooh eck!
To be honest I was playing a bit of the devils advocate.
Apparantly, EGSH have decided not to contract out ATC for another 12 months, although this has yet to be officially confirmed and as Red Dragon says, EGPK is in the early stages.
Working ATCO - I've a bit more experience in the field of management than you credit me for, but I've obviously ruffled your feathers - sorry old chap!
The fact is, doing ATC yourself is becoming more common, and contracting out rarer.
To be honest I was playing a bit of the devils advocate.
Apparantly, EGSH have decided not to contract out ATC for another 12 months, although this has yet to be officially confirmed and as Red Dragon says, EGPK is in the early stages.
Working ATCO - I've a bit more experience in the field of management than you credit me for, but I've obviously ruffled your feathers - sorry old chap!
The fact is, doing ATC yourself is becoming more common, and contracting out rarer.
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Following on from Oxford's decision to drop Serco for self-provision. BAE Systems at Filton have just announced their decision to not renew Serco's contract!
They are setting up their own Company along with Dundridge College (Cwmbran) to do the ATC at their own airfields.
Things are really looking bad for Serco now
They are setting up their own Company along with Dundridge College (Cwmbran) to do the ATC at their own airfields.
Things are really looking bad for Serco now
niknak
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That wouldn't be the same geezers from Shearwater and then went to Dundridge, who also ran Swansea would it?
I imagine Sally is, as we speak, preparing for this afternoon's board meeting with pants on her head and a pencil up each nostril......
I imagine Sally is, as we speak, preparing for this afternoon's board meeting with pants on her head and a pencil up each nostril......
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niknak
Only one or two "geezers" (and geezets) from Shearwater went to Dundridge and I can confirm that those one or two (possibly three now I think about it) are top "geezers" (geezets)!
That wouldn't be the same geezers from Shearwater and then went to Dundridge,
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Whilst the Dundridge college is indeed in the same premises as Shearwater were, and up to 3 staff may be ex-employees of said company, they had no financial or business involvement - therefore not really fair to hang on them any Shearwater connection.
AMS (www.amsjv.com) is a joint Finmeccanica/BAe Systems company looking to start up as an ATC provider. Filton is the first such contract. Funny thing is, they've got an ex-Serco-IAL MD involved in the negotiations.
As for 'is it just Cranfield'.....except for Wattisham, Middle Wallop, Battersea, Chester, Scatsta, North Denes, Gibralter and Luxembourg.....YES. Only eight left out of fifteen 3 years ago
.
AMS (www.amsjv.com) is a joint Finmeccanica/BAe Systems company looking to start up as an ATC provider. Filton is the first such contract. Funny thing is, they've got an ex-Serco-IAL MD involved in the negotiations.
As for 'is it just Cranfield'.....except for Wattisham, Middle Wallop, Battersea, Chester, Scatsta, North Denes, Gibralter and Luxembourg.....YES. Only eight left out of fifteen 3 years ago
.
Last edited by Legs11; 18th Dec 2004 at 17:13.
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Different companies Red Dragon...you're speaking about Serco Middle East and Serco Pty. Legs is counting Aviation Services, Serco Defence and Aerospace, which is UK.
In the muddled and confusing world of serco, these are three completely different entities
.
In the muddled and confusing world of serco, these are three completely different entities
.
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Razors,
Sure, having worked at some of them I'm well aware of that.
Just making the point that the provision of air traffic services in other parts of the world are doing well.
Any word on who at Filton will stay with Serco and who will go with AMS?
Red Dragon
Sure, having worked at some of them I'm well aware of that.
Just making the point that the provision of air traffic services in other parts of the world are doing well.
Any word on who at Filton will stay with Serco and who will go with AMS?
Red Dragon
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At the last count, one resigned two weeks ago for pastures new, two might consider an offer elsewhere within serco, but it seems the rest (subject T&C) will probably stay.
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Gibraltar? is SERCO the ATC provider? If not, who is?
Just out of interest, as I've walked La Linea to Gib more times than I'd care to remember and always wondered about who's in the TWR.
Rgds BEX
Just out of interest, as I've walked La Linea to Gib more times than I'd care to remember and always wondered about who's in the TWR.
Rgds BEX