Serco's crumbling Empire
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serco v others
what's the difference between Serco, VT, Local Authority etc..and by all accounts NATS now?
Where are the jobs? How does each organisation look after their staff? Reading comments in this forum, it looks like NATS are by far the worst at the moment?! Feedback?!
Where are the jobs? How does each organisation look after their staff? Reading comments in this forum, it looks like NATS are by far the worst at the moment?! Feedback?!
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the loser is.....
I have had the dubious privilige of working for all of them (if you count Airwork as VT and the usual spell at Bournemouth as NATS). IMHO the worst by far are some of the local authority setups. The guys at the coalface are superb, but the Airport Comittees that run them are generally made up of newsagents, hoteliers and tv repairmen (no offence) and generally know s*d all about atc and aviation, relying on the goodwill of the atc staff to keep the places running........
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LXGB
It was a 'friend of a friends, next door neighbour's dog' source for the Southend rumour....but as a former SERCo/IAL employee at that very unit, I shall endeavour to investigate further.....!
It was a 'friend of a friends, next door neighbour's dog' source for the Southend rumour....but as a former SERCo/IAL employee at that very unit, I shall endeavour to investigate further.....!
niknak
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SRG - If SERCO have got "The Scottish Contract" it can only be with Highlands and Islands Airports Ltd, (unless Dundee have exapnded and not told anyone
).
SERCO having been after this for many years, and good luck to them.
It'll be interesting to see how SERCO run things there, I don't know if HIAL still have atcos who hold duel validations, but this was a licence to print money at £67 per night tax free accomodation allowance, overtime when travelling etc.
I know that all HIAL atc is combined aerodrome and approach, (with Inverness getting 'radar assistance' from Lossimouth), but for the salaries they get and the traffic levels at the airports, the job's a piece of cake. Additionally, there's their CAA pension scheme - I understand that TUPE allows for them to stay in if the trustees allow it .
Looks like HIAL are venturing into the real world at long last
!
).SERCO having been after this for many years, and good luck to them.
It'll be interesting to see how SERCO run things there, I don't know if HIAL still have atcos who hold duel validations, but this was a licence to print money at £67 per night tax free accomodation allowance, overtime when travelling etc.
I know that all HIAL atc is combined aerodrome and approach, (with Inverness getting 'radar assistance' from Lossimouth), but for the salaries they get and the traffic levels at the airports, the job's a piece of cake. Additionally, there's their CAA pension scheme - I understand that TUPE allows for them to stay in if the trustees allow it .
Looks like HIAL are venturing into the real world at long last
!
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Dodgy Fan Club, looks like you could be right http://www.news.scotsman.com
When does the mass exodus south begin?
When does the mass exodus south begin?
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you need to register with The Scotsman, so here's the news...
Secret plot to privatise air traffic control
Jeanette Oldham
AIR traffic control at ten airports in the Highlands and Islands could be privatised after secret talks between the Scottish Executive and two firms, The Scotsman can reveal.
Opponents, including trade unions and politicians, say privatising the units, which cover the immediate airspace around the airport, could jeopardise safety, drain the public purse and lead to the airports as a whole being sold off.
Alan Denny, the Scottish secretary of Prospect, the controllers’ union, said: "We have seen how privatisation has affected rail safety, we don’t want the aviation equivalent of the Potter’s Bar rail crash in Scotland."
Highlands and Islands Airports Ltd, which is owned by the Executive and runs ten regional airports including Inverness, is negotiating with the Serco Group and National Air Traffic Services, a public private partnership over management of air traffic control.
Serco Defence will make its pitch for the deal at a meeting with Executive officials and HIAL management on Monday. NATS will do the same a week later, sources said.
Serco Defence last night confirmed talks had taken place. NATS refused to comment on commercial matters.
Executive sources say such a move would rid ministers of the "problem" of the airports and free them up to concentrate on the business of government.
But Mr Denny, whose union represents 3,500 air traffic controllers, said the Executive has made no safety case, no operational case and no economic case for privatising air traffic control at HIAL.
He added: "We are totally opposed to this. You cannot transfer responsibility for safety into the hands of an organisation whose main aim is to make money. Cutting costs always runs the very high risk of cutting corners on safety."
News of the move towards privatisation comes at a time of intense debate over air services to remote communities.
The majority of airports are loss-making and HIAL receives a £16 million subsidy from the Executive each year. Prospect claimed privatisation could see an increase in public subsidy.
Mr Denny added: "Profit-making organisations like Serco and NATS would not take on air traffic control units which make a loss without expecting some kind of subsidies. And that money would have to come from the taxpayer in Scotland."
The privatisation of air traffic control by Labour has been heavily criticised.
A year ago, the government sold a 46 per cent stake in the body to a consortium of UK airlines - including British Airways, British Midland, EasyJet and Virgin Atlantic - for £750 million.
The body is facing a financial crisis - the government yesterday confirmed it is prepared to put a further £65 million into the consortium - as banks threaten to withdraw their support, according to reports.
Privatisation is seen by most within the airline industry as the only means to make available much-needed finance for investment in new technology.
Airlines are not happy at the prospect of being forced to pay higher air traffic control charges in an era when the public is enjoying cheap air fares and when national carriers, such as British Airways, are seeing profits nosedive.
Low cost airlines such as Go, EasyJet and Ryanair, which has been embroiled in a row with the Scottish Executive over subsidies to operate out of Inverness Airport, all operate with much reduced profit margins. Any significant rise in costs which they cannot control could damage their profitability, which could mean higher fares for passengers.
Richard Dawson, the president of the Guild of Air Traffic Control Officers, a professional association representing 2,200 civil and military controllers across the UK, said: "Any change in the air traffic service provider would be regulated by the civil aviation authority safety regulation group, based at Aviation House, Gatwick.
"As far as the Guild’s position is concerned, in the short term we would rely on the regulator to maintain existing safety standards.
"The Guild will be following developments closely."
The SNP transport spokesman, Kenny MacAskill, said: "There are some things which should be left to the government to deal with and air traffic control is one of them. PPP is a failed concept, as the recent audit report showed. Safety and privatisation do not go hand in hand as we have seen on many occasions so far."
The Civil Aviation Authority, which governs air traffic control, denied safety was a valid concern with privatisation.
"Air traffic control units have been run by private companies in England for a long time and there is no question that safety has been compromised," a spokesman said.
A spokeswoman for Serco last night confirmed that negotiations were in progress but she said it would not be appropriate to divulge more at this stage.
The Scottish Executive last night denied all knowledge of any approach to Serco or NATS. HIAL declined to comment.
Jeanette Oldham
AIR traffic control at ten airports in the Highlands and Islands could be privatised after secret talks between the Scottish Executive and two firms, The Scotsman can reveal.
Opponents, including trade unions and politicians, say privatising the units, which cover the immediate airspace around the airport, could jeopardise safety, drain the public purse and lead to the airports as a whole being sold off.
Alan Denny, the Scottish secretary of Prospect, the controllers’ union, said: "We have seen how privatisation has affected rail safety, we don’t want the aviation equivalent of the Potter’s Bar rail crash in Scotland."
Highlands and Islands Airports Ltd, which is owned by the Executive and runs ten regional airports including Inverness, is negotiating with the Serco Group and National Air Traffic Services, a public private partnership over management of air traffic control.
Serco Defence will make its pitch for the deal at a meeting with Executive officials and HIAL management on Monday. NATS will do the same a week later, sources said.
Serco Defence last night confirmed talks had taken place. NATS refused to comment on commercial matters.
Executive sources say such a move would rid ministers of the "problem" of the airports and free them up to concentrate on the business of government.
But Mr Denny, whose union represents 3,500 air traffic controllers, said the Executive has made no safety case, no operational case and no economic case for privatising air traffic control at HIAL.
He added: "We are totally opposed to this. You cannot transfer responsibility for safety into the hands of an organisation whose main aim is to make money. Cutting costs always runs the very high risk of cutting corners on safety."
News of the move towards privatisation comes at a time of intense debate over air services to remote communities.
The majority of airports are loss-making and HIAL receives a £16 million subsidy from the Executive each year. Prospect claimed privatisation could see an increase in public subsidy.
Mr Denny added: "Profit-making organisations like Serco and NATS would not take on air traffic control units which make a loss without expecting some kind of subsidies. And that money would have to come from the taxpayer in Scotland."
The privatisation of air traffic control by Labour has been heavily criticised.
A year ago, the government sold a 46 per cent stake in the body to a consortium of UK airlines - including British Airways, British Midland, EasyJet and Virgin Atlantic - for £750 million.
The body is facing a financial crisis - the government yesterday confirmed it is prepared to put a further £65 million into the consortium - as banks threaten to withdraw their support, according to reports.
Privatisation is seen by most within the airline industry as the only means to make available much-needed finance for investment in new technology.
Airlines are not happy at the prospect of being forced to pay higher air traffic control charges in an era when the public is enjoying cheap air fares and when national carriers, such as British Airways, are seeing profits nosedive.
Low cost airlines such as Go, EasyJet and Ryanair, which has been embroiled in a row with the Scottish Executive over subsidies to operate out of Inverness Airport, all operate with much reduced profit margins. Any significant rise in costs which they cannot control could damage their profitability, which could mean higher fares for passengers.
Richard Dawson, the president of the Guild of Air Traffic Control Officers, a professional association representing 2,200 civil and military controllers across the UK, said: "Any change in the air traffic service provider would be regulated by the civil aviation authority safety regulation group, based at Aviation House, Gatwick.
"As far as the Guild’s position is concerned, in the short term we would rely on the regulator to maintain existing safety standards.
"The Guild will be following developments closely."
The SNP transport spokesman, Kenny MacAskill, said: "There are some things which should be left to the government to deal with and air traffic control is one of them. PPP is a failed concept, as the recent audit report showed. Safety and privatisation do not go hand in hand as we have seen on many occasions so far."
The Civil Aviation Authority, which governs air traffic control, denied safety was a valid concern with privatisation.
"Air traffic control units have been run by private companies in England for a long time and there is no question that safety has been compromised," a spokesman said.
A spokeswoman for Serco last night confirmed that negotiations were in progress but she said it would not be appropriate to divulge more at this stage.
The Scottish Executive last night denied all knowledge of any approach to Serco or NATS. HIAL declined to comment.
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Canberra,
I ca'nt comment on whether the Army wanted the RAF to stay at Wattisham but I can confirm that the RAF did'nt want to stay, ATC manpower was pretty thinly spread at the time.
Still the case now I understand.
Anyway, as this thread started off about Serco's crumbling empire , someone better point out that perhaps it crumbleth not!!
MOD are not happy with VT's performance half way through the phase in period and have put the whole thing on hold. The main worry is , I suspect, the fact that come 1st Aug VT have precisely....zero Controllers for Wattisham!! At this point not one of the existing Serco controllers has agreed to be Tupe'd across.
This reflects what has proved to be VT's very niave approach to the whole thing. Watch this space
I ca'nt comment on whether the Army wanted the RAF to stay at Wattisham but I can confirm that the RAF did'nt want to stay, ATC manpower was pretty thinly spread at the time.
Still the case now I understand.
Anyway, as this thread started off about Serco's crumbling empire , someone better point out that perhaps it crumbleth not!!
MOD are not happy with VT's performance half way through the phase in period and have put the whole thing on hold. The main worry is , I suspect, the fact that come 1st Aug VT have precisely....zero Controllers for Wattisham!! At this point not one of the existing Serco controllers has agreed to be Tupe'd across.
This reflects what has proved to be VT's very niave approach to the whole thing. Watch this space
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serco
can i see another boscombe down scenario looming? dont know if many people are aware what happened at boscombe, basically airwork lost the contract and at 1200 on a friday boscombe suddenly realised that at 0800 monday they wouldnt have an atc section! so the raf was called in, this was in 92 and their still there.
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Canberra,
Do'nt know if you are aware but in a previous life VT Aerospace were..... Airwork!! They are very aware of their reputation a la Boscombe and are terrified of it happening again. The really bad thing for them is of course , it is happening again!
The only way they can salvage anything from this is to come clean, admit they've made (big) mistakes with their bid for Wattisham, forget it this time and try again later.
Whether MOD now award the new contract to Serco, extend the existing one or re-bid the whole thing remains to be seen. Hey, what do I care, I only work there!!
Do'nt know if you are aware but in a previous life VT Aerospace were..... Airwork!! They are very aware of their reputation a la Boscombe and are terrified of it happening again. The really bad thing for them is of course , it is happening again!
The only way they can salvage anything from this is to come clean, admit they've made (big) mistakes with their bid for Wattisham, forget it this time and try again later.
Whether MOD now award the new contract to Serco, extend the existing one or re-bid the whole thing remains to be seen. Hey, what do I care, I only work there!!
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They could not pay me enough regardless. At least Serco have a career structure of which VT has none to which they admitted.No disrespect to them. I could not sell my soul to a young ATC service provider at this time.At least the MOD has seen sense and are wondering why.
Quote from Safeskys ( http://www.safeskys.co.uk/ ) website...
"Something is bubbling at Wattisham Station. Watch this space if you work there or want to work there. "
RB geting involved?
"Something is bubbling at Wattisham Station. Watch this space if you work there or want to work there. "
RB geting involved?
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The only thing bubbling at Wattisham was me.....sorry to anyone affected !!!!
RB for Wattisham, I don't think so... If you think the career prospects were limited with VT...??? Given the current situation the only workable alternative is clearly Serco. They have consistently satisfied the customer and if it hadn't been for VT's initial and rather naive bid they would have retained the contract. If RB's website is to be believed I'm left wondering why he didn't submit a NATS bid, Hey, with a repertoire like that how could he go wrong ?
Oh..and by the way RB...don't bother emailing me 'cause I ain't interested....
RB for Wattisham, I don't think so... If you think the career prospects were limited with VT...??? Given the current situation the only workable alternative is clearly Serco. They have consistently satisfied the customer and if it hadn't been for VT's initial and rather naive bid they would have retained the contract. If RB's website is to be believed I'm left wondering why he didn't submit a NATS bid, Hey, with a repertoire like that how could he go wrong ?
Oh..and by the way RB...don't bother emailing me 'cause I ain't interested....