Single European Sky
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An airline view
The official EU positions can be found at my post#3, the airline users represented by IATA are are not happy with progress, their proposals to move things along can be found here:
http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Doc...ropean-sky.pdf
Katie
http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Doc...ropean-sky.pdf
Katie
I very much doubt it. How many people outside of aviation know what ATC is about?
(before the mods take offence, this came from a previous PPRuNe post)
HD you may remember the days when IPMS wielded some power and thanks to collective efforts the lot of the ATCO was brought closer to where it should be. Now we have "working together" and a membership who can't even be bothered to vote on things that affect pay and pensions. This from our unions shouldn't have surprised me:
Many couldn't even be bothered to do this! I wonder how much solidarity our European colleagues felt from us?
As you may have already heard, the European Transport Workers’ Federation (ETF) are organising a Europe‐wide action day on 12th June. In some states this will take the form of strikes or forms of Work‐to‐rule, such as restrictions on direct‐routings to aircraft.
Here in the UK, PCS and Prospect will be undertaking a number of initiatives in order to raise publicity including a Postcard campaign. Please do take the time to return the postcards being distributed to your local rep., in time for us to deliver them on June 12th.
Here in the UK, PCS and Prospect will be undertaking a number of initiatives in order to raise publicity including a Postcard campaign. Please do take the time to return the postcards being distributed to your local rep., in time for us to deliver them on June 12th.
Last edited by Dan Dare; 15th Jun 2013 at 15:22.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some more wish-lists are available on the UK CAA Future Airspace Strategy Website, (UK CAA FAS).
But what are we actually going to do?
Answers on a postcard, please.
But what are we actually going to do?
Answers on a postcard, please.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Jockland
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crazy Voyager - with regard to Mr Kallas:
Oh, he knows what he is doing ok - have a read through this:
THE CURIOUS CASE OF THE â??FRAUD-BUSTINGâ?? EUROPEAN COMMISSIONER | Ashley Mote
bankers are known to run a very stable and sound business , I'm sure he knows what he's doing
THE CURIOUS CASE OF THE â??FRAUD-BUSTINGâ?? EUROPEAN COMMISSIONER | Ashley Mote
More than just an ATCO
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Up someone's nose
Age: 75
Posts: 1,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had one of those 40 years ago..
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: South of Brittany
Age: 75
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Single Sky
SESAR is an industry oriented lobby - money first-where ATC OPS are called when game is over just to put a non value stamp on the paper. Very poor knowledge of present system that impact the future expected organisation. Someone high seated inside this noisy coop said that if 10% of the "study" is set up it will be a great success...
EUROCONTROL is full of think tank managers who had never seen a single control room. Their main job is to reorganised their administrative structure every 5 years and invent new acronyms that make "the network" to become a kind of religion with his bible called "the annual performance review"
EASA still don't know that there are ATCOs that are doing ATC as it is well known for years that pilots are doing all the job thanks to the "situational awareness"...
If they reduce "augmented" deviation from 42 km ( =peanuts !) to 0 I would not like to live at mid distance of the CDG/LHR straight route , merely around DPE VOR, where metal rain is going to happen many times a day ....
From a study made around 2000 , taking away the overseas/maritime ATC sectors, the mean surface of a sector is 37000 square km on both side of atlantic ocean and minimum radar separation the same... The so called "fragmentation" has no impact - apart from some inncompetent lobbies- with the ATC efficiency : An handhover is realised the same way between a Reims sector and a maastricht sector than between a Forth Worth (ZFW) sector and a Memphis (ZME) sector., and countries boundaries have disapeared from displays...apart for VFR transcountries flights..
EUROCONTROL is full of think tank managers who had never seen a single control room. Their main job is to reorganised their administrative structure every 5 years and invent new acronyms that make "the network" to become a kind of religion with his bible called "the annual performance review"
EASA still don't know that there are ATCOs that are doing ATC as it is well known for years that pilots are doing all the job thanks to the "situational awareness"...
If they reduce "augmented" deviation from 42 km ( =peanuts !) to 0 I would not like to live at mid distance of the CDG/LHR straight route , merely around DPE VOR, where metal rain is going to happen many times a day ....
From a study made around 2000 , taking away the overseas/maritime ATC sectors, the mean surface of a sector is 37000 square km on both side of atlantic ocean and minimum radar separation the same... The so called "fragmentation" has no impact - apart from some inncompetent lobbies- with the ATC efficiency : An handhover is realised the same way between a Reims sector and a maastricht sector than between a Forth Worth (ZFW) sector and a Memphis (ZME) sector., and countries boundaries have disapeared from displays...apart for VFR transcountries flights..
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 1 german sky for europe
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But still....
Whilst boundaries might have disappeared from radar screens..... France just as an example... Still fight for every piece of their airspace to remain in French hands? No problem in my opinion, but then nothing will move forward on a European platform with this attitude? (Nothing against the French here... The Belgians/Brits/Germans are all the same....). : )
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: In the rain
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying around today we already get some amazing direct routes all over Europe, the most common reason for not getting one I've found is military areas not inter-ACC coordination.
If we really do need a single sky etc why does everyone have to sit in the same room? As long as the computers talk to each other co-ordination and direct routes shouldn't be a burden (was picking up the phone a burden in the first place?)
Technology exists today where, if it came to it, controllers could probably all work from home. Sounds like somebody is trying to justify his budget more than anything else.
If we really do need a single sky etc why does everyone have to sit in the same room? As long as the computers talk to each other co-ordination and direct routes shouldn't be a burden (was picking up the phone a burden in the first place?)
Technology exists today where, if it came to it, controllers could probably all work from home. Sounds like somebody is trying to justify his budget more than anything else.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mauritius,soon or latter
Posts: 542
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boundaries are just excellent excuse.
Provider A Provider B
CEO/HEAD HEAD
head of ATC Head of ATC
Head of Safety/Quality Head of Safety/quality
head of trainning Head of trainning
Head of HR Head of HR
Head of adminstration Head of adminstration
plus 100 operational workers plus 100 operational workers
If you want to combine effectivelly those two providers you will have 200 workers and 5 bosses. If you just mixed them and remain all high positions alive than you will have the same amount of people doing the same amount of job.No merger benefits ,obviously.
Here comes problem, Who will be among managers sacked ?
than you turn around yourself and examine biographies and (political backgrounds ) of your managers at high level position and than you will understand why SES and reducing number of ANSPs accross Europe is dream.
Head of ANSP ( especial big european ansps) is very high level of state "officer" (in lieu of air Force head, CEO national airline,minister or so) ,implication to turn off such position is also obvious.
Provider A Provider B
CEO/HEAD HEAD
head of ATC Head of ATC
Head of Safety/Quality Head of Safety/quality
head of trainning Head of trainning
Head of HR Head of HR
Head of adminstration Head of adminstration
plus 100 operational workers plus 100 operational workers
If you want to combine effectivelly those two providers you will have 200 workers and 5 bosses. If you just mixed them and remain all high positions alive than you will have the same amount of people doing the same amount of job.No merger benefits ,obviously.
Here comes problem, Who will be among managers sacked ?
than you turn around yourself and examine biographies and (political backgrounds ) of your managers at high level position and than you will understand why SES and reducing number of ANSPs accross Europe is dream.
Head of ANSP ( especial big european ansps) is very high level of state "officer" (in lieu of air Force head, CEO national airline,minister or so) ,implication to turn off such position is also obvious.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another report for your enjoyment. No matter the cynicism about SES, there is no doubt that the system will continue to move slowly in the right direction. Too many powerful people pushing from top down.
All the people issues in ATM will drive further automation unless resolved.
Single European Sky: does SES need another SOS as the European Commission tries again? | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
Katie
All the people issues in ATM will drive further automation unless resolved.
Single European Sky: does SES need another SOS as the European Commission tries again? | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
Katie
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mauritius,soon or latter
Posts: 542
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
will continue to move slowly in the right direction
Too many powerful people pushing from top down.
as any other thing in Europe, many small interests are always hiden behind big ones.
yes french took strike action, german goverment warned "unimportant eastern minister " ,but many small nations also took notes. Our ansps remain for a while.
And to avoid misunderstanding, I do also belive that cooperation and costs reduction with improved service is what we need in future, but SES wouldn't work that way.
Last edited by SINGAPURCANAC; 21st Jun 2013 at 14:41.
