Vancouver ACC

[SThor]

Hello all.

I am planning a trip to Vancouver in the not too distant future and would be interested in visiting the ACC while there and am looking for contact info.

Any help appreciated

Also, regarding the Experienced Controller Program; I understand that it's dead in the water with little or no chance of revival. I sent an email to Navcanada many months ago with no reply (shockingly)... But, I heard a unverified rumor that experienced foreign controllers have been hired after the termination of the program.

Is this a fact or another "Internet tall tale"?

[Number2]

I believe the program is long-time dead. Not exactly a huge success at some Centres. The occasional person may slip in but it means NC doing the required paperwork to obtain a work visa (if he have no right to work there.)

[SThor]

Thank´s for the reply Number 2!

Yes, I expected the program to be long dead but was surprised that foreigners are still being hired though (and hopeful )

You wouldn´t know by any chance if it is a requirement to speak french if one was to apply to Vancouver? (Or which/any other canadian ACC requires it).

Thank´s

[evansb]

Bi-lingual French not required. Only in Quebec is it mandatory, but is desired in New Brunswick..

[squidge]

What Number 2 said........

I e-mailed Navcanada 18 months or so ago and did get a reply. The experienced controller program is dead but they implied that they would look favourably on an experienced controller applying through the normal channels, assuming that said controller had the correct qualifications to live in Canada & be a permanent resident (landed immigrant).

You would, however, have to retrain fully, going through their college (which i believe is in Winnipeg ACC now - someone correct me if i'm wrong) - which would be the equivalent of doing CATC all over again. Yay!!

Any help?

[cossack]

There are regional schools in each ACC now so you don't have to stay in lovely Cornwall, ON. You attend the school for the region your are going to work in, so unless you really want to work in Manitoba, you don't need to go to Winnipeg. You will, however, be expected to pay for your course and not receive a salary until you start live training.

I thought the experienced controller program worked well in Toronto (only one returnee IIRC) and the rest are still here. I've been here just over 10 years now.

[Married a Canadian]

I heard a unverified rumor that experienced foreign controllers have been hired after the termination of the program.

There have been "foreigners" hired but they came through the regular channels..and as has been mentioned...had to pretty much start from scratch. You would have to ask whether it is worth going without pay while you compete classroom training (again).

Not exactly a huge success at some Centres

Which remains a mystery to me to this day. As Cossack said there were no problems in Toronto....which could be argued is a surprise given that it is the busiest ACC/tower. Shame really...as I have heard the stories from elsewhere as to why it didn't work...and they are strange to say the least!

[SThor]

Thank´s for the replies.

Married a Canadian - It´s as I feared and a lengthy (unpaid) classroom stint is not especially exciting. Well well...

Curious though. What exactly DID kill the program?

Quote:
"Not exactly a huge success at some Centres"

"Which remains a mystery to me to this day. As Cossack said there were no problems in Toronto....which could be argued is a surprise given that it is the busiest ACC/tower. Shame really...as I have heard the stories from elsewhere as to why it didn't work...and they are strange to say the least!"

???

Thank´s for the help everybody, appreciate it!

[ex-EGLL]

When I was working there, one of the stronger rumours flying around as to the cause of the demise of the programme was that there was an unofficial deal done with the Brits, as they were losing to many controllers to the colony.

[Number2]

The attitude towards trainees and the training section organisation where I worked sucked. I understood totally why some people pitched up and then went no thanks I'm going home. This, I'm sure, didn't help the case for the program. (Particularly as the head of training at my ACC went on to be put in charge of the program - he wasn't a huge fan!)

[Papamike14]

French in New Brunswick

I worked in Moncton for over ten years. French is not required or desired. Ability is needed. ( yes, I am Canadian )

Foreign born controllers fight an uphill battle in Canada. Union upset that Nav Canada is not training enough Canadian citizens for jobs. Outsiders are looked upon as stealing jobs that rightfully belong to Canadian citizens.

I have friends from South Africa and other countries that have trained in Canada and were turfed very quickly.

Good luck qualifying wherever you go, you'll need it.

[twrweenie5]

Truth??? The Brits they sent were having difficulty qualifying.

[Married a Canadian]

The Brits they sent were having difficulty qualifying

I won't deny that statement...but the question still remained..Why?
Cossack and myself can both vouch that most, if not all of the Brits checked out in Toronto. Given that YYZ is the busiest centre/tower (and I am just stating that as a statistical fact)...it should have been the case that there would have been more difficulty qualifying here than at other centres.

It has been alluded to that other ACCs did not like the program as much as Toronto did...and shall we say..did not make it as "easy" for an experienced controller to qualify. When you have "difficulty" with training..usually you get given help to make it easier. If the stories I have heard are true.....the help elsewhere wasn't quite as much as it was at YYZ.

Outsiders are looked upon as stealing jobs that rightfully belong to Canadian citizens.

Never understood that logic....basically means no-one should be allowed to work abroad...anywhere for anyone at anytime.....as you could always be viewed as stealing someones job.
At the time of the experienced controller program the general rumour was they were having trouble getting Canadians "checked out"...so to fill in the gaps they recruited from abroad with guys/gals who had already done the spadework of training elsewhere.
I didn't consider myself to be "stealing" anyones job as I still had to have the gumption to move myself 3000 miles, get through the training over here , qualify in different airspace using different procedures and adapting to a different lifestyle. If I couldn't do it thenI wouldn't have checked out....regardless of my nationality. I'd only be stealing if I was given my licence without being able to control airplanes safely into YYZ(although some might argue I can't anyway)

In the last 5 years, particularly in Toronto...they have had more success with recruitment programs and training Canadians...so they had no further need to recruit from abroad.

[twrweenie5]

I don't want to get into a huge debate over this..... But applicants hired right off the street were having greater success than "experienced" controllers from UK. To use your phrase.... Just a statistical fact. Probably didn't help much the fact that they padded their resumes. Listed skills/ratings that became painfully evident that they never had. Out.

[Number2]

The ACC where I worked was so different than YYZ! Trainees weren't 'allowed' to use the restroom on the ops room floor. My first greeting from the union rep was "Another foreigner taking Canadian jobs". There was no appreciation of the difficulties of moving thousands of miles, work visa/residency issues, banking problems etc. I later found out that the older guys wanted me CT'd because I had the audacy to buy a house. Thankfully, some of the other guys talked them round. The Experienced Controller guys that came and went were fed up with double standards in training and waiting up to 4 months for a course amongst other reasons. Instructors simply weren't used to people asking "why do you do it that way?"

[Married a Canadian]

The experienced controller program did what it was supposed to and provided a stop gap. If the number of local checkouts had been that high back then...I doubt it would have been needed.
Since then....as the original poster has found.....NAV Canada no longer need to use that stop gap as they have had greater success in training and validating the locals. I have no problem with either stance. I was glad at the time I was able to come over as was Mrs MAC.

I doubt NAV Canada will need to recruit from abroad in the near future as the training is more streamlined and from a YYZ perspective...the trainees are given every chance to succeed.

Probably didn't help much the fact that they padded their resumes. Listed skills/ratings that became painfully evident that they never had

I find that difficult to believe.To apply in the first place you needed an ATC licence. To have an ATC licence in the UK means you have had to go through some pretty thorough training just to be given one...and also have sat through the assessment process at least once. If the UK guys were having trouble it said more about that training process than a lack of competency. You don't move 3000 miles if you don't think you can do something.

Oh well...it is all moot now. Over and out.

[kiloquebec]

If you'd like a tour of the ACC here in Vancouver (well, it's actually in Surrey), I'd be glad to give you a tour. Send me a PM if you're interested.

Vancouver is one of the better ACCs in Canada - trainees here are treated well and any horror stories that you hear about trainees that aren't allowed to use certain restrooms or other facilities are from other ACCs. We have quite a few foreign controllers here and do NOT feel that that they're taking jobs away from Canadians.

As others have said, the foreign controller program is dead, however, you could get hired through the regular recruitment channels. I would guess that the recruiters would find you quite suitable based on your previous experience. Of course you'd have to have Canadian residency etc... Training is very expensive for Nav Canada so they try to pick the people with the most promising chance of success. I would guess that previous control experience would help you in the selection process.