HSE report on NERC Screens... quietly leaked out over night!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: London
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HSE report on NERC Screens... quietly leaked out over night!
Have a look at BBC news page...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/...00/1936464.stm
story about the HSE report on our favourite screens. Interestingly NATS say it is an ''ergonomic'' rather than a 'safety' issue!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/...00/1936464.stm
story about the HSE report on our favourite screens. Interestingly NATS say it is an ''ergonomic'' rather than a 'safety' issue!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: 43° 40' 47" , -80° 25' 28"
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since ergonomics = human factors, and humans are the main arbiters of both safety and efficiency in our air traffic system, any ergonomic issue can become a safety issue if all the conditions are right. This is elementary teaching regarding human error and safety.
I guess this shows how easy you can influence people without necessarily having to lie to them
!
I guess this shows how easy you can influence people without necessarily having to lie to them
!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southern england
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I see no aircraft(apologies to Lord Nelson)
Surely this cannot be a "new" problem. These screens must have be in use for many months now, if not years, judging by the reported delays to this project. Why was this problem not apparent during the user acceptance testing phase? Did this involve "real" controllers who should spot something like this?
Is it time dependant? Does it get worse with time? What about the background lighting? Pictures of West Drayton usually show quite subdued lighting, whereas Swanwick appears quite bright.
As to the keyboards, they look like standard "microsoft" keyboards. How do they differ from those in use at West Drayton? Or is it because the desk surface is at a different angle?
Is it time dependant? Does it get worse with time? What about the background lighting? Pictures of West Drayton usually show quite subdued lighting, whereas Swanwick appears quite bright.
As to the keyboards, they look like standard "microsoft" keyboards. How do they differ from those in use at West Drayton? Or is it because the desk surface is at a different angle?
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Oxford
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I use to work for a Health and Safety company and now I'm applying to NATS (interview on the 10th May - nervous!).
Even at the H&S company we never sat at our desks in the right position and my mouse was always a stretch to reach. The H&S rules are very strict and often impossible to stick to, so I'm not surprised that the HSE have found problems. I'm sure if they went to any office in the country they would find the same thing - even their own offices
Seems like the press are just NATS 'bashing' at the moment. After all they did send all that public money on something as point-less as air traffic safety
Even at the H&S company we never sat at our desks in the right position and my mouse was always a stretch to reach. The H&S rules are very strict and often impossible to stick to, so I'm not surprised that the HSE have found problems. I'm sure if they went to any office in the country they would find the same thing - even their own offices
Seems like the press are just NATS 'bashing' at the moment. After all they did send all that public money on something as point-less as air traffic safety
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: I sell sea shells by the sea shore
Posts: 856
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Newswatcher...
Please don't call me Shirley
The Display screen problems have been evident for a LONG time. Before NERC became operational. The operational staff got their first look at the tubes durring the OCT phase (Operational Conversion Training), a whole year before Swanwick opened.
Many complaints were raised at the time but NATS management refused to accept there was a problem. WHY? You'd have to ask them, but they definitely knew that the staff we not happy with the system and chose, for whatever reason TO DO NOTHING ABOUT IT.
Background lighting? Yep, dear old AC at LATCC was quite dimly lit, alough it was brightened up in latter years. There were however no problems with reflections on the Flat Top radars and the dim(ish) room. Unlike NERC, where there are LOTS of problems with reflections.
The NERC keyboards are custom made and are about an inch thick to accomodate a Speaker that isn't used for anything. They are not adjustable at all. The HSE report suggested that standard PC Keyboards are more ergonomic (and are darn sight cheaper as well). The "mice" BTW are hard wired into each sector (no plug in and play at NERC!) so when they fail you have to shut down the entire workstation to replace them. It takes more than 5 minutes
Keyboards as such were not used at LATCC. Data entry, when required was done mainly by the assistants on a SIDE panel, basically an ABCDE keyboard (The STPOs wouldn't let us have proper QWERTY keyboards). It was possible to input data using the VAKO panel, a sort of early generation touch screen that gave out enormous amounts of heat, but most controllers never bothered as the assistants were far more adept using the SIDE and they were too busy anyway.
Sasha1....
You may well be right about compliance with HSE rules in offices. However ATC is SAFETY CRITICAL, and as llamapoo stated above anything that has Human Factor implications is very important. The same safety critical implications don't necessarily apply in an office environment do they?
As for the media "NATS bashing". Actually No. To my complete surprise they've been reporting the facts pretty much accurately. An embarrasment to NATS maybe, but the TRUTH kinda HURTS doesn't it.
If either of you are really interested do a search on "NERC" on this forum and you will find LOTS more accuate info about the place.
Rgds BEX
Please don't call me Shirley
The Display screen problems have been evident for a LONG time. Before NERC became operational. The operational staff got their first look at the tubes durring the OCT phase (Operational Conversion Training), a whole year before Swanwick opened.
Many complaints were raised at the time but NATS management refused to accept there was a problem. WHY? You'd have to ask them, but they definitely knew that the staff we not happy with the system and chose, for whatever reason TO DO NOTHING ABOUT IT.
Background lighting? Yep, dear old AC at LATCC was quite dimly lit, alough it was brightened up in latter years. There were however no problems with reflections on the Flat Top radars and the dim(ish) room. Unlike NERC, where there are LOTS of problems with reflections.
The NERC keyboards are custom made and are about an inch thick to accomodate a Speaker that isn't used for anything. They are not adjustable at all. The HSE report suggested that standard PC Keyboards are more ergonomic (and are darn sight cheaper as well). The "mice" BTW are hard wired into each sector (no plug in and play at NERC!) so when they fail you have to shut down the entire workstation to replace them. It takes more than 5 minutes
Keyboards as such were not used at LATCC. Data entry, when required was done mainly by the assistants on a SIDE panel, basically an ABCDE keyboard (The STPOs wouldn't let us have proper QWERTY keyboards). It was possible to input data using the VAKO panel, a sort of early generation touch screen that gave out enormous amounts of heat, but most controllers never bothered as the assistants were far more adept using the SIDE and they were too busy anyway.
Sasha1....
You may well be right about compliance with HSE rules in offices. However ATC is SAFETY CRITICAL, and as llamapoo stated above anything that has Human Factor implications is very important. The same safety critical implications don't necessarily apply in an office environment do they?
As for the media "NATS bashing". Actually No. To my complete surprise they've been reporting the facts pretty much accurately. An embarrasment to NATS maybe, but the TRUTH kinda HURTS doesn't it.
If either of you are really interested do a search on "NERC" on this forum and you will find LOTS more accuate info about the place.
Rgds BEX
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Too Far North
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You will probably not be surprised to hear that you are not alone with your "ergonomic" problems.
Here in HK we have a nice new Ops building that went up with the new airport in 98. Since day one complaints about the ergonomics and facilities have fallen on deaf ears.
The communications panel that we use is difficult to see, difficult to operate and now, with the latest installations, difficult to reach. Would you believe that you have to stand up to answer the intercom or select a frequency. Aparently they were originally designed as "touch screens" but that was deemed to be to radical a departure from what was installed in the old airport so an overlay of buttons was requested.
You talk of reflection....you ain't seen nothing. We have black backgrounds on our 20" displays ....... and we have more than 100 overhead lights shining brightly down on our heads. Following initial complaints about reflection management eventually decided to do something about it. I think they consulted a plumber who decided to place diffusing covers over the (originally recessed) high intensity lights. This had the effect of worsening the reflection 20 fold....but the supervisors think it is OK cos now they can see clearly to write their childish behaviour reports on the staff.
You guys talk of human factor issues and the safety implications....boy would a H & S organisation have a ball in this place. It would take a team of 4 a month just to detail the failings here. Unfortunately, because of the contract situation that exists , nobody is prepared to make any waves and therefore nothing gets done. Management works on the supposition that if nobody is complaining then obviously everything is OK. They neglect to consider the fear factor that is so evident everywhere.
Here in HK we have a nice new Ops building that went up with the new airport in 98. Since day one complaints about the ergonomics and facilities have fallen on deaf ears.
The communications panel that we use is difficult to see, difficult to operate and now, with the latest installations, difficult to reach. Would you believe that you have to stand up to answer the intercom or select a frequency. Aparently they were originally designed as "touch screens" but that was deemed to be to radical a departure from what was installed in the old airport so an overlay of buttons was requested.
You talk of reflection....you ain't seen nothing. We have black backgrounds on our 20" displays ....... and we have more than 100 overhead lights shining brightly down on our heads. Following initial complaints about reflection management eventually decided to do something about it. I think they consulted a plumber who decided to place diffusing covers over the (originally recessed) high intensity lights. This had the effect of worsening the reflection 20 fold....but the supervisors think it is OK cos now they can see clearly to write their childish behaviour reports on the staff.
You guys talk of human factor issues and the safety implications....boy would a H & S organisation have a ball in this place. It would take a team of 4 a month just to detail the failings here. Unfortunately, because of the contract situation that exists , nobody is prepared to make any waves and therefore nothing gets done. Management works on the supposition that if nobody is complaining then obviously everything is OK. They neglect to consider the fear factor that is so evident everywhere.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At home
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This thread is really about simple incompetence/ignorance.
One can only presume that whoever project managed the Swanwick centre never involved an ergonomist, interior lighting engineer or occupational health & safety specialist, least of all the staff who were going to use the equipment, during its development. Had they done so these problems would never have arisen. Not to have taken advice form the right technical experts during such a critical development demonstrates incompetence, ignorance or arrogance on the part of those in charge of the project.
I have been an occupational health & safety adviser in several different industry sectors for 15 years and now work in the safety dept. of a UK airline. I also hold a PPL so have a direct personal interest in the welfare of those wonderful people in ATC around the UK who keep a close eye on me and keep me company on the radio when I am in the air.
As Llamapoo says, applied 'common sense' is really all that human factors or ergonomics are about. It is clear that it is not only in the engineering hangar that ergonomics or the 'man/machine interface' is low priority. Maybe someday the aviation industry will really get a grip of human factors as they apply to flight safety - for the time being it is still paying only lip-service.
=========================================
If all else fails - lower your standards.
One can only presume that whoever project managed the Swanwick centre never involved an ergonomist, interior lighting engineer or occupational health & safety specialist, least of all the staff who were going to use the equipment, during its development. Had they done so these problems would never have arisen. Not to have taken advice form the right technical experts during such a critical development demonstrates incompetence, ignorance or arrogance on the part of those in charge of the project.
I have been an occupational health & safety adviser in several different industry sectors for 15 years and now work in the safety dept. of a UK airline. I also hold a PPL so have a direct personal interest in the welfare of those wonderful people in ATC around the UK who keep a close eye on me and keep me company on the radio when I am in the air.
As Llamapoo says, applied 'common sense' is really all that human factors or ergonomics are about. It is clear that it is not only in the engineering hangar that ergonomics or the 'man/machine interface' is low priority. Maybe someday the aviation industry will really get a grip of human factors as they apply to flight safety - for the time being it is still paying only lip-service.
=========================================
If all else fails - lower your standards.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This has not been leaked out Quietly. It is on the front page of COMPUTER WEEKLY IN BIG LETTERS. Look at a copy in WHSmiths etc.
Air traffic at risk as 6 looks like 9 on screen
Health and safety inspectors have written a confidential report which requires National Air Traffic Services (Nats) to make improvements to new, safety-critical systems at the £623m Swanwick air traffic control centre in Hampshire.
The Health & Safety Executive (HSE) report, leaked to Computer Weekly, says that, at worst, the "majority of text used on the radar screens is on the limits of acceptability".
It also seeks improvements in the clarity of display screens used by air traffic "planner" controllers, who handle aircraft transferring between air space sectors.
Some of the HSE findings relate particularly to the clarity of text boxes that display a flight's progress to planner controllers.
The report contains an action plan that requires Nats to set out in writing how it proposes to address each of the items raised by HSE inspectors and to carry them out "within an appropriate timescale".
Failure to comply could lead to unlimited fines in the higher courts, but the HSE may decide to take no enforcement action at all.
A spokesman for Nats gave no assurance that the system would be changed, but said that the HSE report is being "studied thoroughly". He said that the required changes to the system are minor but the "implications of any knock-on effects" of modifying the system "need to be investigated". A working group has been set up to look into the issues, he said.
There is a dispute within Nats about whether the clarity of the screen displays is a safety issue or a matter of personal taste, ergonomics and user comfort.
Nats and its regulator, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), supported by the air traffic controllers' union, Prospect, insist that there is no safety issue.
They point out that the system was certified as safe before it went operational in January.
But some controllers called in the HSE, arguing that they could make mistakes in reading data on the screens. They believed the lack of clarity and small size of alphanumeric data could increase the risks of an accident for which they could then be unjustly blamed.
The controllers have sought a legal opinion on the safety of the system from a leading QC, Ian Croxford. His report criticised the CAA for approving the Swanwick system with "deficiencies".
Croxford said, "Users [air traffic controllers] readily and repeatedly have difficulty in reading the displays and, in particular, confuse the digits zero, six, eight and nine."
He added that complaints and comments about the clarity of screen displays "appear to have reached Nats and the CAA but did not result in any material change to the functioning of the displays".
Croxford's report also criticised Prospect for taking no "vigorous" steps to require Nats to improve the equipment.
It called on the union to take action to address the "perceived safety risk associated with the display screens at the New En Route Centre".
A spokesman for Prospect said the union was investigating the concerns of some of its members.
A Nats spokesman said there were bound to be issues with any major new system
Air traffic at risk as 6 looks like 9 on screen
Health and safety inspectors have written a confidential report which requires National Air Traffic Services (Nats) to make improvements to new, safety-critical systems at the £623m Swanwick air traffic control centre in Hampshire.
The Health & Safety Executive (HSE) report, leaked to Computer Weekly, says that, at worst, the "majority of text used on the radar screens is on the limits of acceptability".
It also seeks improvements in the clarity of display screens used by air traffic "planner" controllers, who handle aircraft transferring between air space sectors.
Some of the HSE findings relate particularly to the clarity of text boxes that display a flight's progress to planner controllers.
The report contains an action plan that requires Nats to set out in writing how it proposes to address each of the items raised by HSE inspectors and to carry them out "within an appropriate timescale".
Failure to comply could lead to unlimited fines in the higher courts, but the HSE may decide to take no enforcement action at all.
A spokesman for Nats gave no assurance that the system would be changed, but said that the HSE report is being "studied thoroughly". He said that the required changes to the system are minor but the "implications of any knock-on effects" of modifying the system "need to be investigated". A working group has been set up to look into the issues, he said.
There is a dispute within Nats about whether the clarity of the screen displays is a safety issue or a matter of personal taste, ergonomics and user comfort.
Nats and its regulator, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), supported by the air traffic controllers' union, Prospect, insist that there is no safety issue.
They point out that the system was certified as safe before it went operational in January.
But some controllers called in the HSE, arguing that they could make mistakes in reading data on the screens. They believed the lack of clarity and small size of alphanumeric data could increase the risks of an accident for which they could then be unjustly blamed.
The controllers have sought a legal opinion on the safety of the system from a leading QC, Ian Croxford. His report criticised the CAA for approving the Swanwick system with "deficiencies".
Croxford said, "Users [air traffic controllers] readily and repeatedly have difficulty in reading the displays and, in particular, confuse the digits zero, six, eight and nine."
He added that complaints and comments about the clarity of screen displays "appear to have reached Nats and the CAA but did not result in any material change to the functioning of the displays".
Croxford's report also criticised Prospect for taking no "vigorous" steps to require Nats to improve the equipment.
It called on the union to take action to address the "perceived safety risk associated with the display screens at the New En Route Centre".
A spokesman for Prospect said the union was investigating the concerns of some of its members.
A Nats spokesman said there were bound to be issues with any major new system
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Darraweit Guim, Victoria
Age: 65
Posts: 509
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like all the same problems we have in Australia with wonky screens, soon to be replaced with marginally better plasma screens...
Pictures of NATS I have seen look horribly familiar. All our screens are angled perfectly to catch reflections from overhead lighting AND the map light of the guy behind you. Acoustics in our big white box mean you can hear whispered conversations 20 m away, but not the person 2 consoles away. And it goes "beep" ALL THE TIME!
All stunningly obvious problems I'd have thought...
Pictures of NATS I have seen look horribly familiar. All our screens are angled perfectly to catch reflections from overhead lighting AND the map light of the guy behind you. Acoustics in our big white box mean you can hear whispered conversations 20 m away, but not the person 2 consoles away. And it goes "beep" ALL THE TIME!
All stunningly obvious problems I'd have thought...
