Pay Deal 2002!
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The article in the mail is pretty much what has been said in the April NATS News (centrefold) (not quite what I expected from a centrefold though!!)
We at the sharp end all know that traffic levels have been down, but by heck are they increasing, I've never been as busy as I was today and by all accounts it will get busier, BAA are predicting exponential growth at the Scottish airports this year, airlines are using larger aircraft to cope but using more of them, so whats the problem here??
Yes the company suffered post 911. Yes the company wasn't in a great financial situation pre 911, however you get what you pay for, NATS doesn't pay anywhere near enough for the professional controllers it employs, it's about time that we took the time out to say to TAG, we deserve better and are prepared to fight for it.
A 2 year deal is about as useful as the bonuses we were promised, take a little now and hope for more later?????
FORGET IT, the money won't be there and the get out clause that TAG will sneak in will rear it's ugly head!!
We nee to stand TOGETHER on this issue, it's the only way it will ever be resolved
We at the sharp end all know that traffic levels have been down, but by heck are they increasing, I've never been as busy as I was today and by all accounts it will get busier, BAA are predicting exponential growth at the Scottish airports this year, airlines are using larger aircraft to cope but using more of them, so whats the problem here??
Yes the company suffered post 911. Yes the company wasn't in a great financial situation pre 911, however you get what you pay for, NATS doesn't pay anywhere near enough for the professional controllers it employs, it's about time that we took the time out to say to TAG, we deserve better and are prepared to fight for it.
A 2 year deal is about as useful as the bonuses we were promised, take a little now and hope for more later?????
FORGET IT, the money won't be there and the get out clause that TAG will sneak in will rear it's ugly head!!
We nee to stand TOGETHER on this issue, it's the only way it will ever be resolved
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pay deal 2002/3
Just heard the details, what rubbish, 2.2% this year and some rpi linked thing next. Its an insult to our intelligence if nothing else. Traffic levels are rising, 9/11 is no longer an excuse, two year deal no way.
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2 year deal? 2/3 percent this and double-digits next? Remember the non paid out "guaranteed" bonus fiasco!
If its got to be a 2 year deal then it has to be the double-digit rise this year and the 2/3 next..... now pass me that Spanish phrasebook
If its got to be a 2 year deal then it has to be the double-digit rise this year and the 2/3 next..... now pass me that Spanish phrasebook
Join Date: Apr 2002
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This is a pay cut not a rise - and as an added insult we're being offered less than SRG. North of the border the word is colleagues down south aren't too bothered and there isn't the stomach for a fight???? Last weeks pay meeting at Scottish was very well attended and showed the troops have had enough. What's the attitude elsewhere?
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pay deal 2002
Warning!!! - NATS will never be held to the RPI+ % formula for the Year-2 element if we roll over on this one. Some excuse will surface 6-8 months hence to get Prospect back round the negotiating table and we'll get sha**ed again.
"NO WAY 2 YEAR PAY!"
To cap it all, underlying inflation is now up at 2.3% and 'Gormless Gordon and his Big Tax Band' are about to strike up a happy tune, so lets hear it for the pay cut in real terms!
emlis - don't forget SRG remains 'Civil Service' - NATS on the other hand lives in the "real world"!
"NO WAY 2 YEAR PAY!"
To cap it all, underlying inflation is now up at 2.3% and 'Gormless Gordon and his Big Tax Band' are about to strike up a happy tune, so lets hear it for the pay cut in real terms!
emlis - don't forget SRG remains 'Civil Service' - NATS on the other hand lives in the "real world"!
Last edited by fish food; 17th Apr 2002 at 10:25.
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Well, wasn't that totally predictable.
I just heard the same, and I'm so bloody fuming, it's a surprise I drove home safely.
What incenses me even more is a conversation I had with someone who shall remain nameless, but who is significantly important within the union.
XXX "We're disappointed, but it's the best on offer."
Me "But it doesn't reflect what everyone was hoping for."
XXX "Well, if we asked for what people wanted, management would dig their heels in and we'd get nowhere"
Me "So, are we being represented? The mood is very different here and on PPRUNE"
XXX "I don't read PPRUNE, it annoys me because it's driven on by a few militant arseh0les who cause trouble at every opportunity. We have to be realistsic; NATS and TAG are on the ropes."
Me "Do you really think you can sell such a deal ?"
XXX "I think most people understand there's no money and we're lucky to get anything.."
Please, someone, tell me where any REPRESENTATION of ATCOs wishes is being reflected in the negotiations, because at the moment, I get confused whether I'm speaking to my union rep. or just another NATS talkpiece.
Wigglet
I just heard the same, and I'm so bloody fuming, it's a surprise I drove home safely.
What incenses me even more is a conversation I had with someone who shall remain nameless, but who is significantly important within the union.
XXX "We're disappointed, but it's the best on offer."
Me "But it doesn't reflect what everyone was hoping for."
XXX "Well, if we asked for what people wanted, management would dig their heels in and we'd get nowhere"
Me "So, are we being represented? The mood is very different here and on PPRUNE"
XXX "I don't read PPRUNE, it annoys me because it's driven on by a few militant arseh0les who cause trouble at every opportunity. We have to be realistsic; NATS and TAG are on the ropes."
Me "Do you really think you can sell such a deal ?"
XXX "I think most people understand there's no money and we're lucky to get anything.."
Please, someone, tell me where any REPRESENTATION of ATCOs wishes is being reflected in the negotiations, because at the moment, I get confused whether I'm speaking to my union rep. or just another NATS talkpiece.
Wigglet
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pay deal 2002
Wigglet - Worrying in the extreme, but sadly the impression I get is that our TU guys don't get much support from Prospect at a National level. I doubt very much that Prospect will take on a Labour Govt. and TAG for the benefit of 1.5% of its overall membership, especially given the high earning status of those members compared to other professions represented in the union. (I suspect NATS mgt. are of the same opinion).
Perhaps we should look towards those with experience in the "real world" when it comes to dealing with the airlines, i.e. BALPA, (New Zealand's ATCOs are members of NZALPA, nzalpa.org.nz, see "about"), in securing a better deal, if they'd have us of course.
Best to wait for the official line as to what happens next I guess. Who knows, Prospect may recommend we vote against and stand up and be counted. Or then again, perhaps not!
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invertibrates of the world rise up and unite
Perhaps we should look towards those with experience in the "real world" when it comes to dealing with the airlines, i.e. BALPA, (New Zealand's ATCOs are members of NZALPA, nzalpa.org.nz, see "about"), in securing a better deal, if they'd have us of course.
Best to wait for the official line as to what happens next I guess. Who knows, Prospect may recommend we vote against and stand up and be counted. Or then again, perhaps not!
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invertibrates of the world rise up and unite
Last edited by fish food; 17th Apr 2002 at 14:33.
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its about time we showed management that we are not going to accept such a crap offer that amounts to a pay cut. It seems to me that the first time we are not constrained by the 'treasury pay guidlines' , civil servants get much more than we used to or have now been offered. Does this mean the average
ATCO IS PAYING FOR PRIVATISATION!
Somone in or union should tell management that they are not paying use for last year, and the subsequent fall in traffic, but for this year and what i am sure will be a big rise in traffic. All this on new equipment which we did not recive enough training on.
ATCO IS PAYING FOR PRIVATISATION!
Somone in or union should tell management that they are not paying use for last year, and the subsequent fall in traffic, but for this year and what i am sure will be a big rise in traffic. All this on new equipment which we did not recive enough training on.
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What's the difference between Prospect and a chocolate teapot?
You could eat the teapot.
My powder is dry, and has been for ages. I have a match, and the time has come to put the two together. We've been saying "Let's just accept this one, because we can't be arsed with the hassle, we'll kick up a stink next year" the time has come to stand up for what we know and believe to be true. Anyway 18 months valid on T&D, with another 8 to go before the proper payscale, it's the only payrise I'm going to get.
Have a think about Industrial Action, figures used are, I believe representative, but have been plucked oout of the air (I'm on leave, and haven't got the access to the actual numbers)
Earning 30K ish, that's just over £60 a day after tax. A 2% payrise equates to about £400 a year after tax. Let's say we successfully campaign for a 5% payrise. This will bring about £1000 a year after tax. That's 9 or 10 days industrial action paid for.
BUT
The gains made are not just for this year, they're for the rest of your life, increased earnings and pension payments from the moment you put your foot down. With 30 years service ahead of you that £600 extra actually becomes nearer to £20 to 25 THOUSAND pounds, with pension on top.
Makes you think
Tell your friends
And your managers (After all, this applies to them too, unless they've negotiated an individual contract)
You could eat the teapot.
My powder is dry, and has been for ages. I have a match, and the time has come to put the two together. We've been saying "Let's just accept this one, because we can't be arsed with the hassle, we'll kick up a stink next year" the time has come to stand up for what we know and believe to be true. Anyway 18 months valid on T&D, with another 8 to go before the proper payscale, it's the only payrise I'm going to get.
Have a think about Industrial Action, figures used are, I believe representative, but have been plucked oout of the air (I'm on leave, and haven't got the access to the actual numbers)
Earning 30K ish, that's just over £60 a day after tax. A 2% payrise equates to about £400 a year after tax. Let's say we successfully campaign for a 5% payrise. This will bring about £1000 a year after tax. That's 9 or 10 days industrial action paid for.
BUT
The gains made are not just for this year, they're for the rest of your life, increased earnings and pension payments from the moment you put your foot down. With 30 years service ahead of you that £600 extra actually becomes nearer to £20 to 25 THOUSAND pounds, with pension on top.
Makes you think
Tell your friends
And your managers (After all, this applies to them too, unless they've negotiated an individual contract)
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Wigglet:
Are you the only one who feels this strongly at EGCC or is this the general feeling? I know that SCATCC are p***ed off, but I can't help feeling LACC who although, moan regularly in the canteen will let the side down. I want to try to gauge the feeling around the country as opposed to individuals.
By the way what would you realistically settle for?
Are you the only one who feels this strongly at EGCC or is this the general feeling? I know that SCATCC are p***ed off, but I can't help feeling LACC who although, moan regularly in the canteen will let the side down. I want to try to gauge the feeling around the country as opposed to individuals.
By the way what would you realistically settle for?
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Unwise
I couldn't speak for the rest of the unit, but my perception is that that there has been a groundswell in opinion that enough is enough.
It's just my own personal observation, but people who I have always considered to be in the job 'for the duration' have even themselves started voicing their dissent and even talk of getting out.
Some union reps might consider us just a load of arsey rabble rousers on here, but I have a genuine fear that NATS management of old and now TAG have pushed us right to the edge of a precipice over which some of its loyal staff might jump and never return.
Wigglet
I couldn't speak for the rest of the unit, but my perception is that that there has been a groundswell in opinion that enough is enough.
It's just my own personal observation, but people who I have always considered to be in the job 'for the duration' have even themselves started voicing their dissent and even talk of getting out.
Some union reps might consider us just a load of arsey rabble rousers on here, but I have a genuine fear that NATS management of old and now TAG have pushed us right to the edge of a precipice over which some of its loyal staff might jump and never return.
Wigglet
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My personal hopes ??
Here goes,
A significant rise in UHP (atleast 10%)
A rise in basic of between 12 and 15%
NO 2 year deal
A commitment to reviewing operational scales
10% of individual's basic paid on top if OJTI
May as well aim high....no other bu99er seems to be, but it's nothing less than we deserve.
Here goes,
A significant rise in UHP (atleast 10%)
A rise in basic of between 12 and 15%
NO 2 year deal
A commitment to reviewing operational scales
10% of individual's basic paid on top if OJTI
May as well aim high....no other bu99er seems to be, but it's nothing less than we deserve.
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If the union say we should accept this shoddy deal, it really is time to change unions or set up our own. If the HQ are not prepared to back industrial action then what are they there for? Us or their own careers? I've had enough, I've voted against the last 6 or 7 pay deals believing that they do not offer us what we are worth, if this one goes through as well I think I might as well pack up and go home. WE ARE BEING SH*FTED AGAIN
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Look, I never asked Smiler and Brown to part privatise NATS, the use of Sept 11th is cruel on all who worked so hard in order to help our airline owners.
If you actually think the pay offer is the best that NATS can offer, don't vote for industrial action. Simple! Too much wool being pulled over too many eyes.
We are now liberated from central government, so even thicker bull@hit now exists. NATS HR dept tells the unions it cant afford a worthy pay rise, unions capitulate!
NO WAY SAY THE MEMBERSHIP!
Or do they.
Just ask yourself, what bonus are the seniors on if they con the staff that NATS cannot afford a pay rise? A bl@@dy huge one!
If you think you're worth it, VOICE IT!
If you actually think the pay offer is the best that NATS can offer, don't vote for industrial action. Simple! Too much wool being pulled over too many eyes.
We are now liberated from central government, so even thicker bull@hit now exists. NATS HR dept tells the unions it cant afford a worthy pay rise, unions capitulate!
NO WAY SAY THE MEMBERSHIP!
Or do they.
Just ask yourself, what bonus are the seniors on if they con the staff that NATS cannot afford a pay rise? A bl@@dy huge one!
If you think you're worth it, VOICE IT!
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An open post to any and every atco that is also a Prospect rep.
From the above it seems you should be aware of what you know you are going to be told over the next few days/weeks.
Save yourselves and us, remember that you are one of us, all the hassle, light the exceedingly arid powder and set it up for a big no vote.
Fishfood - I am told by many sources that IPMS/Prospect spent a lot of cash on anti-PPP, obviously appreciated, but very much lack the stomach for any fight for its "well"paid members.
As many have written and will say, time for some very big decisions, not least on those who choose to represent us
From the above it seems you should be aware of what you know you are going to be told over the next few days/weeks.
Save yourselves and us, remember that you are one of us, all the hassle, light the exceedingly arid powder and set it up for a big no vote.
Fishfood - I am told by many sources that IPMS/Prospect spent a lot of cash on anti-PPP, obviously appreciated, but very much lack the stomach for any fight for its "well"paid members.
As many have written and will say, time for some very big decisions, not least on those who choose to represent us
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Cuddles
I couldn't agree more
Terrain Safe
From what I have heard this is managements final offer, the Reps have now got to consult with all members and pass the feedback back to the Section Chairs, a unanimous no vote from the members would send a strong signal, then we have to hope that the union has the balls to finally start putting on the pressure. I am sure that if they were prepared to go to the wire, management would find the extra cash. The trouble is we are seen as a soft touch, we were walked over with PPP and did nothing. We were walked over with pensions and again did nothing. Now we are going to be walked over with pay and I'm sure management are quaking in their boots waiting for our response.
I couldn't agree more
Terrain Safe
From what I have heard this is managements final offer, the Reps have now got to consult with all members and pass the feedback back to the Section Chairs, a unanimous no vote from the members would send a strong signal, then we have to hope that the union has the balls to finally start putting on the pressure. I am sure that if they were prepared to go to the wire, management would find the extra cash. The trouble is we are seen as a soft touch, we were walked over with PPP and did nothing. We were walked over with pensions and again did nothing. Now we are going to be walked over with pay and I'm sure management are quaking in their boots waiting for our response.
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Thank you negotiators for extracting as much as you could during difficult negotiations.
Please hurry up with the ballot so the ATCOs can vote and ensure it has a clear explanation that voting against this means you wish to proceed with an urgent ballot on strike action.
This, as I believe Mr Maghee might have said,ISthe year.
Please hurry up with the ballot so the ATCOs can vote and ensure it has a clear explanation that voting against this means you wish to proceed with an urgent ballot on strike action.
This, as I believe Mr Maghee might have said,ISthe year.