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Old 20th Dec 2012, 13:20   #1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK
Age: 39
Posts: 7
Questions for UK controllers

Please could someone clarify the following for me ? I work in the simulator and am conscious to use correct R/T. I've checked CAP 413 but would like to clarify :

If you are vectoring an A/C for a NDB/VOR /GNSS approach is the correct R/T from ATC :
" C/S report established on the final approach track "

If an A/C declares a Mayday or Pan , is the correct ATC reply " C/S ... TWR..roger mayday "
and you then standby for the A/C to contact you with further instructions ?"

Does the A/C C/S then become " MAYDAY C/S " or " PAN C/S " automatically ?

Thanks very much.

Last edited by Mr Falcon; 20th Dec 2012 at 13:21. Reason: spelling error
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 14:14   #2 (permalink)
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I haven't been operational for a good few years but I don't think these things have changed much.

For the non-precision approach one, I don't think there's anything laid down but that's what I always did. I suspect there's nothing written down because, technically, I don't think it's supposed to happen - in the world of rules, aircraft are supposed to follow the procedure from whatever fix is specified.

As for the mayday, again, the real world and the rules rarely coincide. Often the first call gave the bones of the problem and I reacted accordingly - I'd acknowledge it but if I didn't need to ask any questions at that moment I waited until the initial rush of stuff to be done (both in the air and on the ground sometimes) is finished. RTF calls - if there was no need to prefix the callsign I usually wouldn't but if another aircraft joined the frequency I'd either prefix the next call to the emergency or give the other a "Standby, emergency in progress".
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Old 21st Dec 2012, 17:57   #3 (permalink)
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: South of England
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technically, I don't think it's supposed to happen - in the world of rules, aircraft are supposed to follow the procedure from whatever fix is specified.
Au contraire - quite normal to vector for a non-precision approach; all specified in the UK MATS Pt 1. After all, with radar, what would you do with a sequence of aircraft if no precision approach were available? The manual is vague about phraseology though, admittedly.

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Old 22nd Dec 2012, 10:44   #4 (permalink)
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I'd have thought it would have been

<callsign> Roger mayday, Squawk 7700, pass details when ready

Then the first and last transmission after should be 'mayday/pan <callsign>'
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Old 22nd Dec 2012, 15:40   #5 (permalink)
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I stand corrected by 2 sheds - thanks. Don't remember that stuff in MATS 1 in my day - either put in since I last read it closely or, more likely, I've forgotten it all!

I recall some IAP designers that I had dealings with that the only thing that ATC should do is vector an aircraft to the IAF, after which it was up to the pilot to fly the approach. Vectors to the FAT, particularly at a level below that of the IAF, was a definite no-no. My claims that in the real world this just didn't happen fell on deaf ears or were met with "tut-tuts".

As for the phraseology, dagowly is probably spot on with what the book says. Again, I was trying to give a real world answer.
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