Turn Right 10 degrees

[Talkdownman]

Ha ha! Communication and its weaknesses! Example:

Driver and front-seat passenger at a difficult road junction:

"Is it clear on the left"

"No one coming...."

[5milesbaby]

All I think on the matter is that I really hope that "CRM" "Captain" and "I got into a bit of a pissing contest with a lady way to high on her horse on my flight today" aren't all true.

[coracle]

But who won the pissing contest?

[Big Pistons Forever]

US= more airline traffic than anywhere else by a large margin.
US= lowest airline accident rate than everywhere else by a significant margin
US= highest capacity ATC system than everywhere else in the world

And somehow they manage to safely and efficiently push the tin without a mindless slavish addiction to European radio pedantry......go figure

[Vercingetorix]

Big Pistons Forever

Ah, but what about the traffic density!
US= more Sq miles than anywhere.
US= more space for all those aircraft.

Easy peasy!

[Agaricus bisporus]

"Turn right ten degrees" and "turn right ten degrees report new heading" require completely different responses so reporting the heading when not asked for it is neither correct nor required, It may be confusing as the controller will not be expecting it and may talk over it. Indeed, have heard bollockings handed out on busy London and German freqs for just that. After all, you wouldn't think of telling them the heading for "direct XXXXX" unless they ask for it. Would you???

Basic RT discipline, I'd have thought.

[criss]

US= more airline traffic than anywhere else by a large margin.
US= lowest airline accident rate than everywhere else by a significant margin
US= highest capacity ATC system than everywhere else in the world

And somehow they manage to safely and efficiently push the tin without a mindless slavish addiction to European radio pedantry......go figure

One knew this had to come at one point or the other.

[reportyourlevel]

One knew this had to come at one point or the other.

Yep, it's the ATC version of Godwin's law.

[Artic Monkey]

Originally Posted by Agaricus bisporus

"Turn right ten degrees" and "turn right ten degrees report new heading" require completely different responses so reporting the heading when not asked for it is neither correct nor required, It may be confusing as the controller will not be expecting it and may talk over it. Indeed, have heard bollockings handed out on busy London and German freqs for just that. After all, you wouldn't think of telling them the heading for "direct XXXXX" unless they ask for it. Would you???

Basic RT discipline, I'd have thought.

I completely agree, Agaricus. How many times do you hear ATC say "ABC123 turn left 10 deg", and ABC123 respond with "Turn left 10 deg and new hdg is.....um...is xxx deg". It's irrelevant, if ATC want to know your heading they'll ask you to report it. In the meantime others are trying to get a word in. If they ask you to turn left 10 deg, then turn left 10 deg and read back "turn left 10 deg, ABC123".

[10W]

US= more airline traffic than anywhere else by a large margin.
US= lowest airline accident rate than everywhere else by a significant margin
US= highest capacity ATC system than everywhere else in the world

Do you have the reference documents where these stats are collated ?

I think #2 is wrong for starters.

[nelsonmadiba]

What a useless,lame topic.

Even my nephew would not have such an issue.

Stay safe

[off watch]

@nelson
As an active radar ATCO, to me it's not as lame as asking about possible residential law changes in the UAE

[KKoran]

Since the original poster is in the US, here's the FAA guidance:

JO 7110.65

5-6-2. METHODS

a. Vector aircraft by specifying:

1. Direction of turn, if appropriate, and magnetic heading to be flown, or

PHRASEOLOGY-
TURN LEFT/RIGHT HEADING (degrees).

FLY HEADING (degrees).

FLY PRESENT HEADING.

DEPART (fix) HEADING (degrees).

2. The number of degrees, in group form, to turn and the direction of turn, or

PHRASEOLOGY-
TURN (number of degrees) DEGREES LEFT/RIGHT.

[Ditchdigger]

I have a problem when ATC gives me those kind of instructions ... it seems
dangerously vague to me. Is it even allowed? In the "ATC for dummies" class I
had to take in college, they always taught me that a vector has 3 numbers.


Turn right one - zero degrees ... sounds to me like a right turn to a
heading of 010.

So I got into a bit of a pissing contest with a lady
way to high on her horse on my flight today, what do you guys think on the
matter?

I referred this question to Mrs. Ditchdigger (an FAA controller of the Tower/TRACON variety), and her answer concurs roughly with what KKoran has posted above.

What she said differs only in that she would say "Turn right/left (number of degrees) degrees", as opposed to the phraseology specified above, "Turn (number of degrees) degrees right/left."

Further, she explained (without my having mentioned the term), that "group form" means the number of degrees (10) would be spoken as "ten". Headings would be spoken as the individual numbers, i.e. zero-one-zero.

Therefore, it would seem that the lady in question, if she gave a right turn of "one-zero degrees" was not using proper phraseology.